G.A.tor Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 I won an xmen 1 in a heritage auction. When I got it , I honestly thought they had sent the wrong book. The scan so misrepresented what the book actually looked like (intentional or not, it did) rather than return book I quickly sold it for what I paid but I am Leary about scans representing what the book looks like in hand Badger, Knightsofold and Larryw7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 59 minutes ago, G.A.tor said: I won an xmen 1 in a heritage auction. When I got it , I honestly thought they had sent the wrong book. The scan so misrepresented what the book actually looked like (intentional or not, it did) rather than return book I quickly sold it for what I paid but I am Leary about scans representing what the book looks like in hand So their scans are on steroids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, batman_fan said: So their scans are on steroids The X-men 1 cover looked so white I was excited when I won. What I received was no where near white. Intentional or not, a serious misrepresentation lou_fine and comicdonna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, G.A.tor said: The X-men 1 cover looked so white I was excited when I won. What I received was no where near white. Intentional or not, a serious misrepresentation That has been my biggest fear with buying a copy of X-men 1 and a Daredevil 1, have a nice white cover only to get something off-white to cream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, G.A.tor said: 1 hour ago, batman_fan said: So their scans are on steroids The X-men 1 cover looked so white I was excited when I won. What I received was no where near white. Intentional or not, a serious misrepresentation I wondered if anybody has ever bothered to try to return a book to Heritage due to the inaccurate colors of their scans? I bet you if you throw around words such as misleading, misrepresentation, or potentially fraudulent, you would get your money back right away. Of course, you most likely wouldn't ever be allowed to bid in any of their future auctions going forward. Edited May 27, 2019 by lou_fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, lou_fine said: I wondered if anybody has ever bothered to try to return a book to Heritage due to the inaccurate colors of their scans? I bet you if you throw around words such as misleading, misrepresentation, or potentially fraudulent, you would get your money back right away. Of course, you most likely wouldn't ever be allowed to bid in any of their future auctions going forward. I suspect if I wanted to return that book 1) heritage would take it back 2) i’d be allowed to bid going forward. Edited May 27, 2019 by G.A.tor lou_fine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, G.A.tor said: The X-men 1 cover looked so white I was excited when I won. What I received was no where near white. Intentional or not, a serious misrepresentation 51 minutes ago, G.A.tor said: I suspect if I wanted to return that book 1) heritage would take it back 2) i’d be allowed to bid going forward. Since you ended up selling it for what you paid for it, did you ever considered simply sending it back to Heritage for a straight refund? At least that way they would have gotten the message they had possibly done something wrong. This way, they think everything's actually fine and hence, they continue to "misrepresent" their scans going forward, not thinking that anything was wrong at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, G.A.tor said: I suspect if I wanted to return that book 1) heritage would take it back 2) i’d be allowed to bid going forward. If that’s the case would they offer the book to the next highest bidder or inform the seller it would slip to their next auction or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Kid Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, G.A.tor said: I won an xmen 1 in a heritage auction. When I got it , I honestly thought they had sent the wrong book. The scan so misrepresented what the book actually looked like (intentional or not, it did) buying from Heritage a crapshoot then. Edited May 27, 2019 by Gotham Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Marwood & I Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 What a fascinating, but ultimately depressing read this thread is. Putting aside the clear benefits of third party grading, there is so much that is ethically questionable, so many conflicts of interest. I'd have loved to have contributed to the debates of the past but sadly find that any attempt to revive them on these boards is met with stony silence. What was wrong then is still wrong now and shouldn't be brushed aside just because the debate has been had. If a company can manipulate a grade upwards, with hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially at stake, how can that same company be trusted to deliver the subsequent grade in an impartial manner? Especially if they can be coerced by an unhappy owner as posts in this thread have suggested. And all to a set of grading criteria that they developed in house and do not publish. Why is it tolerated? And as for the misrepresentation of books due to scanner settings, deliberate or otherwise, isn't it about time some of the big guns offered videos of the big books? These books are worth millions, and all you get is a front and back scan? Even ebay offers 12 free photos! Knightsofold, GreatCaesarsGhost and PopKulture 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, lou_fine said: Since you ended up selling it for what you paid for it, did you ever considered simply sending it back to Heritage for a straight refund? At least that way they would have gotten the message they had possibly done something wrong. This way, they think everything's actually fine and hence, they continue to "misrepresent" their scans going forward, not thinking that anything was wrong at all. I had emailed heritage about it, FYI I’m sure they were/are aware Edited May 27, 2019 by G.A.tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said: What a fascinating, but ultimately depressing read this thread is. Putting aside the clear benefits of third party grading, there is so much that is ethically questionable, so many conflicts of interest. I'd have loved to have contributed to the debates of the past but sadly find that any attempt to revive them on these boards is met with stony silence. What was wrong then is still wrong now and shouldn't be brushed aside just because the debate has been had. If a company can manipulate a grade upwards, with hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially at stake, how can that same company be trusted to deliver the subsequent grade in an impartial manner? Especially if they can be coerced by an unhappy owner as posts in this thread have suggested. And all to a set of grading criteria that they developed in house and do not publish. Why is it tolerated? And as for the misrepresentation of books due to scanner settings, deliberate or otherwise, isn't it about time some of the big guns offered videos of the big books? These books are worth millions, and all you get is a front and back scan? Even ebay offers 12 free photos! I’ve had all 3 major auction houses email me multiple images of books upon request and I know I’ve seen videos too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Gotham Kid said: buying from Heritage a crapshoot then. To be fair, I’ve had books from all 3 that were “off” from the scans. Been that way since scan technology. But rare that a book is “way” off , though it clearly happens Edited May 27, 2019 by G.A.tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Marwood & I Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 28 minutes ago, G.A.tor said: I’ve had all 3 major auction houses email me multiple images of books upon request and I know I’ve seen videos too Well that's good to hear at least, thanks. Maybe they should make more use of the available technology as standard though rather than on request. It could go some way to heading off debates like these, as everyone would be able to better see the 'true' appearance / colour strike of notable books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Many people also don’t realize that their monitors are showing them off color images too. We trust what our screens show us unquestionably, even tho they drift from reliable and are adjustable, but rarely verify it to reality., because with monitor technology, there is no single reality! We are each seeing a slightly different color, often radically different. Having said that these recent Heritage scans are a bit hotter than usual. MrBedrock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, G.A.tor said: To be fair, I’ve had books from all 3 that were “off” from the scans. Been that way since scan technology. But rare that a book is “way” off , though it clearly happens Very smart move...But I would think if you were going to spend a Million dollars on a book you would actually go and look at it in person or have somebody who you trust personally inspect it at any of the Big houses also to verify. Edited May 27, 2019 by Mmehdy pemart1966 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, sartrexpress said: The Denver Cap #1 originally was purchased at Greg Manning and was considered the second best Cap #1 at 9.0 .. years later other lesser copies were subsequently graded 9.2's.. I brought the Denver to a Chicago Con about 6 years ago where it was regraded by CGC twice from a 9.2 to a 9.4. I have never seen the SF Cap #1 but looking at the scans the corners look a little soft. I also own the Allentown Cap 3 which does have more brilliant gloss and color than the Denver Cap 1 so I would assume the Allentown Cap 1 beats the Denver in that respect. The Denver though has extremely sharp corners and a perfect spine. Wow. 3rd post, and all you have is a pedigree Cap 3??!! welcome, friend Edited May 27, 2019 by GreatCaesarsGhost Action252Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 34 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: Wow. 3rd post, and all you have is a pedigree Cap 3??!! welcome, friend Steve has been a boardie for a long time. Not his 3rd post (but maybe since migration he started new boardname?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, G.A.tor said: Steve has been a boardie for a long time. Not his 3rd post (but maybe since migration he started new boardname?) That makes more sense, but yes he shows a meager 3 posts to his name. I say that knowing full well my post count is meager too Edited May 27, 2019 by GreatCaesarsGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: That makes more sense, but yes he shows a meager 3 posts to his name. I say that knowing full well my post count is meager too He was just Sartre before. Steve A is a well known artist and comic collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...