When Is the Newsstand Tipping Point? 1 1

[RCheli]

My personal feelings about the collectability newsstand copies of comics aside, I do realize there is a market out there for certain issues. My question is: at what point (date-wise) does it matter?

I ask because on Sunday, the guy setting up next to me at a local show was hawking his wares, and was talking to anyone who would listen about how newsstands are the next big thing. And, amazingly, he was able to sell a newsstand Hawkeye #1 (from 1983) to an unsuspecting doofus for $35. Now, this clown dealer loves to chime in when I'm making sales (which is another story altogether), I held my tongue, even though I would have loved to rescue this buyer from wasting money on this otherwise common book.

So while I assume that there was a pretty even split newsstand/direct in '83 (or maybe even more newsstand), when does it tip to the point that newsstands are actually a significant minority in print runs where there is a difference?

Edited May 28, 2019 by RCheli

[mr_highgrade]

I think a case can be made for certain newsies  that were printed after the  2000's. I've sold a few of my CGC 9.8's Spidey's for a pretty penny. They were all sold to a private collector who reached out to me. So those prices won't show up on GPA. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by mr_highgrade

[chasehasadog82]

I’m not an expert but I only collect Marvel newsstands and this is the conclusion that I’ve come to. I believe the tipping point started to occur in December 1986 when both the US/Canada prices were being printed in the corner box. As the years went on, the distribution became less and less to eventually nonexistent. With that said, newsstands from 12/86 are easier to come by than newsstands from ‘89 and newsstands from ‘89 are easier to come by than newsstands from ‘92 and so forth until Marvel newsstand distribution ended in 2013/2014. 

[Get Marwood & I]

45 minutes ago, mr_highgrade said:

I think a case can be made for certain newsies after that were printed after the  2000's. I've sold a few of my CGC 9.8's Spidey's for a pretty penny. They were all sold to a private collector who reached out to me. So those prices won't show up on GPA. 

I agree.

As an ex-Spidey completist, I attempted a full set of Direct and Newsstand editions for ASM 1-700

The Directs were easy of course, as were the newsstands, in the main, up to the end of the century. From 2000 onward, the newsstands became incrementally harder to find. Being based in the UK, I had a friend in the US ship newsstands for me from issue 695 or so (I had a full set of Superior Spidey 1-20), which he picked up from Barnes & Noble, but the others I had to pick off from eBay and other online sources.

I found these records in my old files - you can see what issues I was missing at the time (it starts at issue 30 of the ASM v2):

 

 

Some of the issues from 600 up were extremely hard to find and, accordingly, I ended up paying a premium on them. Chuck at Mile High ruined everything the day he decided to list newsstands for 100X regular prices, based on his strange print run formulas. That really killed it for me.

The last time I looked, completists were offering $500 bounties for ASM #694 in newsstand. You only need to search ebay for some issues to see how non-existent they are, compared to their direct counterparts.

So the tipping point for me @RCheli in answer to your question is around the year 2000 based on my own experience. That was when newsstands became 'hard to locate' for many issues. As for pricing, very few people care about or collect newsstands in my experience. I did because I was a completist, and that's what you do. But the prices offered up for some now are ridiculous. On occasions, I would pay $20 for a book that would fetch $2 as a direct. Completism does that to you - it makes you overpay. But when Chuck, and others, started listing them at $200 that's when I jumped ship. Just because the newsstands are comparatively scarce and, in the final years of production, virtually non-existent, doesn't mean that they are worth a fortune. Chuck did not let the market decide. He priced them at 100x value, as they were 100x as scarce by his logic. And in doing so, created the ridiculous discrepancies we now see, and which put off genuine completists like me from collecting.

Books are only worth what two people are prepared to pay, however scarce they are. And I know, even today, very, very, very few people, who are as excited by late production newsstands as I once was. So in summary:

• Late production newsstands are generally extremely scarce compared to their direct edition counterparts*
• Some dealers recognise that, and have priced accordingly
• Collectors and completists may have to pay exorbitant prices as a result for 'key' issues (and in some cases even 'unkey' issues. Is that a word?)

*Try to find a newsstand copy of Thor #19 v2. It doesn't exist. If one came up for auction on ebay today, and the right bidders noticed it, it may well be bid to an eye-watering level. Even though it has no value beyond it's bizarre lack of availability

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Get Marwood & I
Beware the dangerous dilettante. He only does things, to up the ante

[RCheli]

I think 2000 is a good point, because by then, comics were at its nadir in all phases of publishing/pop culture (years away from the first Spider-Man movie and even further away from the first Iron Man), and if direct sales numbers were plummeting, I can only imagine how small the print runs of the newsstands were. 

[mr_highgrade]

For many years starting around early 79 thru the early '90s, I would buy one Direct Edition and one Newsstand Edition of my favorite books. They were mostly Spidey's & X-men titles. Eventually, I only bought DE of any title, except when it sold out. Then I would pick it up 3 weeks later at a newsstand or Barnes and Noble. As the years went on newsstand sales started to decline. Probably because the hardcore collector was buying from comic shops only. Starting around 2004 or so I started to noticed that were less and less newsstand's actually selling comic books. I also noticed that Marvel increased its cover price compared to its DE counterpart on certain popular titles like X-men, Spidey & Hulk. I am pretty sure that was to make up for all the returns that didn't sell out. 

[valiantman]

http://www.newsstand101.com/

The further you go to the right, the more likely you'll be to find that newsstands are harder to get.

It's actually a different question to ask when high-grade newsstands get tough. It's possible that the high-grade crossover point is earlier.

Edited May 28, 2019 by valiantman

[FlyingDonut]

33 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

 

*Try to find a newsstand copy of Thor #19 v2. It doesn't exist. If one came up for auction on ebay today, and the right bidders noticed it, it may well be bid to an eye-watering level. Even though it has no value beyond it's bizarre lack of availability

 

Well, we don't know if it doesn't exist, we just can't find one. It must exist since all the other ones around it do - its out there, we just can't find it. But you are 100% correct on the premium that would be paid.

[mr_highgrade]

Here are some samples.

 

 

[mr_highgrade]

BTW, even DC sometimes would increase its price on certain popular titles.

 

 

[RCheli]

15 minutes ago, valiantman said:

 

 

I've always assumed the crossover was a little later (closer to 1990), but this looks about right. I wonder if an 80-20 split would be enough to make one a premium over the other... Or is it not until 90-10? I mean, I have some Moon Knights from the early 90s (the Marc Specter series) when the split was probably 70-30, and I would never consider pricing them higher than their direct siblings. 

[shadroch]

15 minutes ago, RCheli said:

I've always assumed the crossover was a little later (closer to 1990), but this looks about right. I wonder if an 80-20 split would be enough to make one a premium over the other... Or is it not until 90-10? I mean, I have some Moon Knights from the early 90s (the Marc Specter series) when the split was probably 70-30, and I would never consider pricing them higher than their direct siblings. 

Why not? Where would we be if Grandma Woodchuck hadn't decided to price his books above guide? Take a hard to move $3 book and make it a hard to find $30 newsstand edition, that every collector should have in his trove. Anyone can sell a book to someone who wants it. The truly successful dealers get you to buy what they want to sell. The ability to get top dollar is a talent not discussed much but it is really what separates the best from the rest.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Beware of the fake "newsstand" comics of the late 80s/early 90s. A book having a printed UPC does not necessarily mean the book was sold on the newsstand...

[valiantman]

1 hour ago, RCheli said:

I've always assumed the crossover was a little later (closer to 1990), but this looks about right. I wonder if an 80-20 split would be enough to make one a premium over the other... Or is it not until 90-10? I mean, I have some Moon Knights from the early 90s (the Marc Specter series) when the split was probably 70-30, and I would never consider pricing them higher than their direct siblings. 

The most visible book to watch is Amazing Spider-Man #300 (1988) and there is consistent indication that somewhere at least 80-20, if not 90-10 or more, is what shows up on eBay.  Distribution is a big deal, which is often overlooked or hard to quantify.  Even if the original printed copies were 50/50 direct/newsstand, the fact that direct editions went to collectors (more likely to put books on eBay 30 years later) can make the availability appear to be 80-20, 90-10, etc., on the open market today.

[RCheli]

41 minutes ago, valiantman said:

The most visible book to watch is Amazing Spider-Man #300 (1988) and there is consistent indication that somewhere at least 80-20, if not 90-10 or more, is what shows up on eBay.  Distribution is a big deal, which is often overlooked or hard to quantify.  Even if the original printed copies were 50/50 direct/newsstand, the fact that direct editions went to collectors (more likely to put books on eBay 30 years later) can make the availability appear to be 80-20, 90-10, etc., on the open market today.

As I'm in a meeting where I have nothing to add, I did a quick and dirty eBay search. Currently (and this a very unscientific way to look at things), there are 227 direct editions of ASM #300 and 92 newsstand copies. (There were a few copies that I couldn't see from the initial tiny pic, and I didn't bother to click into the auction.)

[valiantman]

12 minutes ago, RCheli said:

As I'm in a meeting where I have nothing to add, I did a quick and dirty eBay search. Currently (and this a very unscientific way to look at things), there are 227 direct editions of ASM #300 and 92 newsstand copies. (There were a few copies that I couldn't see from the initial tiny pic, and I didn't bother to click into the auction.)

The last time I did a thorough check was August 2018. Looking specifically at CGC-graded copies, it was 96 direct editions and 33 newsstand. The average CGC direct edition grade was 9.12 and the average CGC newsstand grade was 8.28.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Beware of the fake "newsstand" comics of the late 80s/early 90s. A book having a printed UPC does not necessarily mean the book was sold on the newsstand...

 

[RCheli]

6 minutes ago, valiantman said:

The last time I did a thorough check was August 2018. Looking specifically at CGC-graded copies, it was 96 direct editions and 33 newsstand. The average CGC direct edition grade was 9.12 and the average CGC newsstand grade was 8.28.

So it's about 66-33-ish... It looks like there have been no CGC 9.8 newsstands sold on eBay recent enough to be in their sold listings, and there have only been a handful of 9.6 newsstands, which ended with about a 10%-15% premium over direct. 

[valiantman]

4 minutes ago, RCheli said:

... there have only been a handful of 9.6 newsstands, which ended with about a 10%-15% premium over direct. 

Looking back in a few years, that will probably seem like a bargain.

[divad]

On 5/28/2019 at 7:11 AM, RCheli said:

My question is: at what point (date-wise) does it matter?

It all matters, baby . . . it all matters