I have a TOMB OF DRACULA 1 in what I believe is 9.8 condition with JERRY CONWAY'S signature on the cover. If I submit to CGC could I get a BLUE LABEL with a notation stating JERRY CONWAY WRITTEN ON COVER, or do I have to get the dreaded GREEN LABEL ? 2 2

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 7/18/2019 at 7:30 AM, BrooksR said:

I've read posts on these forums a few times that say that non cgc witnessed signatures are worthless.  By this argument no signature obtained before cgc's program would have any value, including the ones by writers/artists that died before that program started.  Would you say that to people that collect presidential/historical signatures?  There are people that have trained for years to recognize legitimate signatures for collectors/museums/courts. Their findings are not as certain as a witnessed and instantly sealed book but it does hold some weight.  Serious collectors have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars at prestigious auctions for autographs from Babe Ruth, Albert Einstein, Abraham Lincoln etc. Do you think they all have no value?  Drotto is right to say that the reputation of the expert is key.  I know cbcs uses beckett's authentication people.  Do they have a bad reputation? 

I've been out of comic collecting since before grading services were even a thing and have just recently come back so I'm still trying to figure all of this out 

They're not worthless. A lot of people, however, are looking at the issue backwards. It isn't that the Signature Series program makes signatures "worth something." It's that, without the Signature Series program, all signatures would still be "worth" whatever you could convince someone they were, which is essentially nothing. The Sig Series program is special only because it provides a person that witnesses, with their own eyes (that's how it should be done), that that creator signed that comic book. It's far more than authentication or verification; witnesses certify, in writing, that they saw those books being signed by those creators. 

Otherwise...you're still dealing with the same issues of verification that you always have, and there are lots of very skilled fakers out there, just itching to forge some signatures when and if they become valuable. The comic industry, thus far, is pretty lucky: signatures have mostly been "not worth anything", which is precisely why the vast majority of signatures are authentic. But if that ever changes, then the forgers will target us, and we'll be just like everyone else. 

And even the most expert of experts has been fooled. So long as there's money to be made, that's the way it is. I recently discovered an FF #48 that was signed by Kirby on the first page. It was really neat. I am convinced it is authentic. But it has no value, because it might not be. And the fact that it has no value is precisely why I think it IS authentic: it's not worth anyone's time to forge it...yet. When and if that changes...forget it.

[drotto]

On 7/18/2019 at 10:30 AM, BrooksR said:

I've read posts on these forums a few times that say that non cgc witnessed signatures are worthless.  By this argument no signature obtained before cgc's program would have any value, including the ones by writers/artists that died before that program started.  Would you say that to people that collect presidential/historical signatures?  There are people that have trained for years to recognize legitimate signatures for collectors/museums/courts. Their findings are not as certain as a witnessed and instantly sealed book but it does hold some weight.  Serious collectors have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars at prestigious auctions for autographs from Babe Ruth, Albert Einstein, Abraham Lincoln etc. Do you think they all have no value?  Drotto is right to say that the reputation of the expert is key.  I know cbcs uses beckett's authentication people.  Do they have a bad reputation? 

I've been out of comic collecting since before grading services were even a thing and have just recently come back so I'm still trying to figure all of this out 

You are correct, and certain people are considered experts in the field, and are both proven and willing to put their names publicly on the line. The main issue is who are CBCS and even more so PGX using.  If they used an acknowledged expert, who is certifying on the case or by some other method the authenticity, I would gladly take it, be damned if CGC would green label it. Do we really need to dredge up the "verified" Steve Ditko signatures by PGX from a few years ago again?  Because of issues like that, many comic collectors have become very skeptical about verified signatures. As usual, it only takes a few bad ones to ruin the entire idea. Many non witness signature do have value, we just do not have a transparent reliable system in place for comics at this time to prove that value.

 

People who collect historic signatures, rely and insist upon only the best people saying it is good (sometimes multiple people), before they put down the big bucks.

[divad]

That said, I love it when I come across a "Jack Kirby" or a "Stan Lee" signature in a collection where there's been absolutely zero hype (or even mention) in the resale - almost guaranteed authentic.  And more often than not on the splash page instead of the FC (very old school) 

[BrooksR]

10 hours ago, drotto said:

Do we really need to dredge up the "verified" Steve Ditko signatures by PGX from a few years ago again?  Because of issues like that, many comic collectors have become very skeptical about verified signatures. As usual, it only takes a few bad ones to ruin the entire idea.

I just started collecting again this year, I haven’t heard of the Ditko PHX signature issue. I’ll look that up. Is that why nobody likes PGX?

[drotto]

3 hours ago, BrooksR said:

I just started collecting again this year, I haven’t heard of the Ditko PHX signature issue. I’ll look that up. Is that why nobody likes PGX?

There are pictures on this forum, somewhere, not reposting at this time.  But the basic issue was they had two Spider-man comics signed by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, that were clearly fake for many reasons, and PGX verified them as authentic and put them in the gold verified label. 

[Junkdrawer]

If this was my book, I would have it slabbed by CGC. If the book is that nice and it gets a 9.6 green label, one can assess the situation as CGC downgraded it from 9.8 due to the writing on the cover. You see this with TMNT#1. A green 9.6 can be considered 9.8 technical grade and then the standard tech downgrade. Secondly you have to wonder why someone would fake this persons sig. He’s just the guy you wouldn’t fake. I’m convinced there are more real sigs than fakes on comic books signed by the lesser named talent. 

In the end I would enjoy that in a 9.6 green, knowing it is better than the assigned grade.

[divad]

What I want know, is how-t-f did you get such a long thread title? 

[ADAMANTIUM]

7 minutes ago, divad said:

What I want know, is how-t-f did you get such a long thread title? 

just keep typing and when the world says that's enough, tell them not on my watch!  

Edited July 25, 2019 by ADAMANTIUM

[Artboy99]

Nice book, I would leave it raw unless you plan to sell it.

[speedcake]

Keep it raw. It's a beauty and doesn't need encapsulation to be preserved. If you plan to sell it then maybe consider it, I guess, but otherwise  on slabbing it for me.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 7/17/2019 at 7:41 PM, Sanman9840 said:

O.K. if CGC won't verify a signature how about Jerry Conway himself.  If I take the book to JERRY CONWAY with a CGC representative and he says it's his signature would that be enough to get a CGC YELLOW LABEL?

If Gerry Conway signed his name "Jerry Conway" you're probably not going to find many buyers

[Jeffro.]

On 7/25/2019 at 1:46 PM, divad said:

What I want know, is how-t-f did you get such a long thread title? 

That's WHAT I'd LIKE to KNOW !