Can GPA do anything about apparent shilled auctions? 0

[Xenosmilus]

Just now, gpanalysis said:

So what's the consensus? Remove the sales by this seller for the moment until further info can establish what's going on? 

I'm new to the topic but if they (Berkbridge) has a pattern of doing this then yes. That being said I'm "arm chairing" this at the moment so don't take my advice.

[bababooey]

Just now, Naphtha said:

More people need to chime in.

OK, but first put together a coherent argument in a single thread and I'd be happy to give an opinion.  If you've wasted a year following bad auctions from this seller you should be able to present this with a bit more clarity.   Just from clicking around to the handful of threads you're posting in, I don't understand how you're linking some entities to each other. 

[Naphtha]

1 minute ago, bababooey said:

OK, but first put together a coherent argument in a single thread and I'd be happy to give an opinion.  If you've wasted a year following bad auctions from this seller you should be able to present this with a bit more clarity.   Just from clicking around to the handful of threads you're posting in, I don't understand how you're linking some entities to each other. 

How is my argument not coherent. I literally posted pictures for you to follow. 

[bababooey]

Just now, Naphtha said:

How is my argument not coherent. I literally posted pictures for you to follow. 

Pictures of what and where did you post them? 
Also what conclusions do you want me to reach from a picture of a single auction where the only other support is your memory or opinion?  I'm just suggesting if you want feedback that you repost the pics and explain why I should be reaching the same conclusion you reached.

[Naphtha]

5 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Pictures of what and where did you post them? 
Also what conclusions do you want me to reach from a picture of a single auction where the only other support is your memory or opinion?  I'm just suggesting if you want feedback that you repost the pics and explain why I should be reaching the same conclusion you reached.

 

[Naphtha]

5 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Also what conclusions do you want me to reach from a picture of a single auction where the only other support is your memory or opinion?  I'm just suggesting if you want feedback that you repost the pics and explain why I should be reaching the same conclusion you reached.

Jesus man, do you think I'm freaking out over a single ASM15 sale?

[kav]

41 minutes ago, gpanalysis said:

So what's the consensus? Remove the sales by this seller for the moment until further info can establish what's going on? 

That's my opinion.  

[kav]

One thing's for sure-GPA rapidly responds to questionable issues!  kudos

[kav]

@Buzzetta now is the time.

[Naphtha]

Just now, kav said:

@Buzzetta now is the time.

I wasn't the only one. Good.

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, kav said:

One thing's for sure-GPA rapidly responds to questionable issues!  kudos

Responding is great, it would be better if people took some time to review some points/allegations.  

The FF 55 9.4's were two different books, look at them.   The 8.5 FF 55s are also two different live auctions for two different copies.  
The ASM 15 sales history @Naphtha said he assured us was fake was based on his belief that a sale price was too high. 
The rasputin/berkbridge foundation OP thread "BEWARE" linked multiple times (outing coasttocoast/muscleshark etc...) isn't relevant to any of this but for some reason @Naphtha continues to post "evidence" in that thread (in ebay advertising forum btw) and that's also where the connection (?) to Torpedo comics being this berkbridge charity based on what?  A SanDiego location and a NV incorporation along with matching the address of a Reno law office/business center?    

I also don't know why you, kav, started a second thread continuing the discussion from the other one, it's annoying as  because IF there's a seller creating bad sales data to the point of recommending GPA ignore it all, the case hasn't been made as far as I can tell.  It would make more sense to review and discuss it prior to tagging GPA into a brand new thread....

[kav]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

Responding is great, it would be better if people took some time to review some points/allegations.  

The FF 55 9.4's were two different books, look at them.   The 8.5 FF 55s are also two different live auctions for two different copies.  
The ASM 15 sales history @Naphtha said he assured us was fake was based on his belief that a sale price was too high. 
The rasputin/berkbridge foundation OP thread "BEWARE" linked multiple times (outing coasttocoast/muscleshark etc...) isn't relevant to any of this but for some reason @Naphtha continues to post "evidence" in that thread (in ebay advertising forum btw) and that's also where the connection (?) to Torpedo comics being this berkbridge charity based on what?  A SanDiego location and a NV incorporation along with matching the address of a Reno law office/business center?    

I also don't know why you, kav, started a second thread continuing the discussion from the other one, it's annoying as  because IF there's a seller creating bad sales data to the point of recommending GPA ignore it all, the case hasn't been made as far as I can tell.  It would make more sense to review and discuss it prior to tagging GPA into a brand new thread....

My thread had nothing to do with any particular seller it was just a general thread started when I started wondering about the issue after reading the other thread.  I just wondered what GPA WOULD do if such a thing occurred in general.   That's why I purposely didnt just make my comment and tag GPA in the other thread.  As Greenham would say "you there!  Settle down!   "

Edited September 8, 2019 by kav

[Hudson]

4 hours ago, gpanalysis said:

So what's the consensus? Remove the sales by this seller for the moment until further info can establish what's going on? 

Shill bidding is a serious problem and probably occurs far more often than people think.

When looking at a potential shill bidding situation, I look at who won the auction, their % of bids with that seller, and their number of bid retractions.

Although one may never be 100% certain as to whether or not shill bidding is occurring, sometimes the facts lead one to a STRONG belief that a particular seller is not acting in an ethical manner.  (For example when they have one "bidder" who has a high percentage of bids with just ONE seller and that "bidder" seems to bid on virtually everything that seller puts up for auction).

In cases where the facts lead one to a strong belief that shill bidding has occurred on a particular seller's auction, then I would think ALL of this seller's data should be removed (even if not ALL their sales were shill bid).  I think this is the best way to maintain integrity of the data.

 

[Buzzetta]

5 hours ago, kav said:

@Buzzetta now is the time.

 

5 hours ago, Naphtha said:

I wasn't the only one. Good.

I’m not on your side here... 

GPA sales are naturally inflated by free shipping and people like me that always list things well above GPA.  

Lets talk about shipping first.  Let’s make believe someone is selling a $100 book. They list it at $125 free shipping.  The book is inflated to represent a higher price tag AND that free shipping.  That book will sell on coupon day.  The book is now recorded as sold at $125.  Same seller has ten copies.  List it again right there to $150 free shipping. It sells again. Gpa now says $150.  See what I’m doing now?  Now I list the book at $145 + shipping.  

Let’s talk about inflated prices. I have no problem admitting I am priced above GPA on all of my books when I first list them.  The market will catch up or the book sells because of any of the following reasons.  I’m a nice guy. People see my feedback and feel that if they are buying they might as well buy from someone that has positive feedback and has been around for awhile. It might be a foreign seller.  I sell books using GSP on eBay. Some people won’t even sell internationally.  This means I may be the only avenue to get the book. 

Let’s talk about availability.  I sold my Batman 52 in a 2.5 Slightly Brittle pages for $1200 (maybe $1300) earlier this spring.  That book was well above GPA.  I liked it and felt that the slightly brittle page assignment was BS as I submitted the book myself. However if I was going to sell it I was going high on it.  Buyer was very happy to receive the book as evidenced through feedback. I was also offering the only copy of that book at any grade around that price range.  Rather than wait for the book to turn up cheaper he decided to take it.

What all of you forget is that people like me threw out the Overstreet price guide decades ago.  Overstreet was even more easily manipulated because there was no discernible evidence to a seller’s reported sales. If you are one of the few that have an AF 15 you could inflate your sale by 20% especially if you have another in your inventory.  It’s like a pizza place operating on a cash business.

I looked at prices holistically across completed eBay sales.  One person can manipulate one sale and they would be an outlier... they can not manipulate them all.  Are their outliers in it? Sure...  if there always have been in every “guide”.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Buzzetta

[Gaard]

[comicwiz]

7 hours ago, gpanalysis said:

So what's the consensus? Remove the sales by this seller for the moment until further info can establish what's going on? 

George, I know you run a tight ship with gpa, so I'll leave this decision in your capable hands. However I wondered, between feeBay's recent decision not to report the accepted offer price on BIN's, and other bidding shenanigans that happen on that site, whether there needs to be a dataset for outlier sales. Something that is distinguishably coloured differently in the results so people can see the result, but a layer of human judgement may have deemed something off about that particular auction or listing, so some caution is suggested before determining the data point as valid. I normally omit outlier sales in my comparable reporting for appraisals, however I do make a notation somewhere in my work file, with reference to the listing, about why I determined that sale to be questionable.

Hopefully in this particular instance, more proof/information can come forward on what is happening as I'm not sure how much work it would mean for you to remove those listings, and maybe not in this instance alone, but others, may have to add them back if no definitive proof can be presented.

Edited September 8, 2019 by comicwiz

[jharvey]

Here's a very strange outlier from a Heritage sale for X-Men #35 CGC 9.0, only five times the going rate:

 

2019	(5) $2,160Hi $450Lo
Aug-13-2019 $450 Cert# 2024886017         May-04-2019 $459 Cert# 1295203017         Apr-21-2019 $2,160 Cert# 1968721003         Mar-06-2019 $464 Cert# 1295203017         Jan-17-2019 $455 Cert# 0170238013

[batman_fan]

Once GPA gets this shill bidding squared away, I hope they take on the high price of healthcare.

[lizards2]

1 hour ago, jharvey said:

Here's a very strange outlier from a Heritage sale for X-Men #35 CGC 9.0, only five times the going rate:

 

2019	(5) $2,160Hi $450Lo
Aug-13-2019 $450 Cert# 2024886017         May-04-2019 $459 Cert# 1295203017         Apr-21-2019 $2,160 Cert# 1968721003         Mar-06-2019 $464 Cert# 1295203017         Jan-17-2019 $455 Cert# 0170238013

To me, this kind of datapoint is fairly self-regulating, as I doubt many take that outlier very seriously, and it seems to have no effect on subsequent sales.

Or, am I missing something?

[jharvey]

Just now, lizards2 said:

To me, this kind of datapoint is fairly self-regulating, as I doubt many take that outlier very seriously, and it seems to have no effect on subsequent sales.

Or, am I missing something?

Not missing anything. Just one of the strangest sales prices I have ever seen on GPA.