Steve Ditko actually wrote about Spider-man... A LOT 5 5

[MR SigS]

2 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

Yeah, he was just terrible at drawing Spider-Man...  

Well, Spidey's right leg does seem too small, and the way he's holding the bad guy is all wrong- Gravity would cause him to twist out and down. Spidey would need a painful grip digging in the guy's side as he squeezes him tight against his hip. Otherwise it's fine. 

This Spidey is more typical of Kirby.

 

[Bronty]

I would have enjoyed seeing that spidey too.  It’s for the best that Ditko did the early spideysbut the Kirby version would have been cool too, just different .   Didn’t he do the asm 10 cover?   That would probably be the best comparison point 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Bronty

[N e r V]

1 hour ago, Bronty said:

I would have enjoyed seeing that spidey too.  It’s for the best that Ditko did the early spideysbut the Kirby version would have been cool too, just different .   Didn’t he do the asm 10 cover?   That would probably be the best comparison point 

Enforcers drawn and inked by Steve Ditko. Spider-Man figure penciled by Jack Kirby, with inking by Ayers. The original, rejected cover to Amazing Spider-Man # 10, by Steve Ditko, has been published in Marvel Tales # 147. 
 

 

[N e r V]

I’m not a big fan of the Kirby Spider-Man either beyond what work he did do on him as simply a change of pace. I actually think the early Romita work on the series was the best. Romita actually drew the series at a high point. Like a lot of artists though his later work doesn’t do much for me. But here’s more Kirby versions for everyone...

 

For better or for worse Kirby drew every character like Captain America. Bulky and blocky. Even his women looked like they were on steroids....

[MR SigS]

16 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Enforcers drawn and inked by Steve Ditko. Spider-Man figure penciled by Jack Kirby, with inking by Ayers. The original, rejected cover to Amazing Spider-Man # 10, by Steve Ditko, has been published in Marvel Tales # 147. 
 

 

The Web Pattern on his costume seems to be what JK had much of his trouble with.

[shadroch]

It might be blasphemous, but I greatly prefer the Lee- Romita  era books over anything before or since.

[NoMan]

5 minutes ago, shadroch said:

It might be blasphemous, but I greatly prefer the Lee- Romita  era books over anything before or since.

yup.

"yup" meaning I very much agree with you about how great the lee-romita books were, not "yup" it's blasphemous.

Edited February 23, 2020 by NoMan

[N e r V]

47 minutes ago, shadroch said:

It might be blasphemous, but I greatly prefer the Lee- Romita  era books over anything before or since.

 

40 minutes ago, NoMan said:

yup.

"yup" meaning I very much agree with you about how great the lee-romita books were, not "yup" it's blasphemous.

I place Kirby in the highest ranks on any number of things but yes, I and many others prefer other artists over him on some of his titles. Kirby could only draw characters big and bigger. Worked great on things like Thor but not so much on Spider-Man or a Daredevil.

Others I like better is Buscema Surfer at least tied with me with Kirbys version.

Short run but I like Steranko Cap over Kirby Cap and the Thomas/Adams X-Men run was far better than the early Lee/Kirby X-Men until the new guys showed up in the 1970’s.

Romita Spider-Man started off trying to “ape” a bit of the Ditko style but he soon found his own voice on the series and gave it that quality newspaper strip drawing style. Thank gawd Romita was the introduction of MJ too. Ditko chicks all looked angry and b*tchy...lol

Gwen actually started looking hot under Romita. All those years drawing DC romance paid off handsomely for him...

 

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

 

I place Kirby in the highest ranks on any number of things but yes, I and many others prefer other artists over him on some of his titles. Kirby could only draw characters big and bigger. Worked great on things like Thor but not so much on Spider-Man or a Daredevil.

Others I like better is Buscema Surfer at least tied with me with Kirbys version.

Short run but I like Steranko Cap over Kirby Cap and the Thomas/Adams X-Men run was far better than the early Lee/Kirby X-Men until the new guys showed up in the 1970’s.

Romita Spider-Man started off trying to “ape” a bit of the Ditko style but he soon found his own voice on the series and gave it that quality newspaper strip drawing style. Thank gawd Romita was the introduction of MJ too. Ditko chicks all looked angry and b*tchy...lol

Gwen actually started looking hot under Romita. All those years drawing DC romance paid off handsomely for him...

 

Yes, very interesting how ASM turned into a romance book after Romita took it over. Which is great - I'm a big fan of those books and his women are some of the best drawn of the era. Just that... it's very interesting.

[Prince Namor]

2 hours ago, N e r V said:

Enforcers drawn and inked by Steve Ditko. Spider-Man figure penciled by Jack Kirby, with inking by Ayers. The original, rejected cover to Amazing Spider-Man # 10, by Steve Ditko, has been published in Marvel Tales # 147. 
 

 

Ditko's cover was a million times better. Stan was usually right about such changes, but got it wrong in this instance.

[kav]

I wouldnt say a million times better.  Maybe like twice as good.  No background, basic figures.

[N e r V]

1 minute ago, kav said:

I wouldnt say a million times better.  Maybe like twice as good.  No background, basic figures.

 

4 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Ditko's cover was a million times better. Stan was usually right about such changes, but got it wrong in this instance.

I’m bias on this one. I got a copy of Marvel Tales #7 from Howard Rogofsky as a kid so the original cover is the one I like best...

 

[MR SigS]

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Ditko's cover was a million times better. Stan was usually right about such changes, but got it wrong in this instance.

The biggest difference between the two covers is Ditko's has a gun. Could this be Lee's reason? A gun doesn't appear on ASM until #26.

[N e r V]

5 hours ago, MR SigS said:

The Web Pattern on his costume seems to be what JK had much of his trouble with.

A lot of artists struggled with the web pattern. I think Romita had Ditko explain it to him on how to do it when he did the Spider-Man crossover in Daredevil. I seem to remember him talking about it at some point. There was a system on how to get it right.

[N e r V]

6 minutes ago, MR SigS said:

The biggest difference between the two covers is Ditko's has a gun. Could this be Lee's reason? A gun doesn't appear on ASM until #26.

It could be any number of reasons. I know a lot of focus was given to how the star character appeared on the cover. Concerns over their size vs other characters or how they were positioned. I know Lee let some things slide if he felt the cover was really good so sometimes exceptions were made too. Pretty subjective back then. Lee’s strength in my opinion was he wasn’t always right but his years as an editor showed he had some solid skills in that area. He knew and understood the market better than most. You can argue his choices over your own but the sales results don’t lie back then.

[shadroch]

3 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Ditko's cover was a million times better. Stan was usually right about such changes, but got it wrong in this instance.

Ditkos is too busy for me, and the coloring on the Marvel Tales is way too garish for my taste. I'm not crazy about Kirbys cover either. Its always looked faded to me.

Edited February 24, 2020 by shadroch

[William-James88]

Here is my letter from Steve, if anyone is curious. I'll be honest, it's not a great letter, but hey it's a letter from Steve Ditko. In 2015 I thought to write to him to thank him for all the great work I love so much and I was wondering where he stood now that his work was at the forefront of pop culture, in the spotlight now more than ever.  Obviously, he stood exactly where he always stood, far away from it. But he didn't mind telling me. Not really sure what he means with the complaining, I didn't feel like writing back for a better understanding, he seemed to want to be left alone. At least it's easier to read than the essays posted earlier.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by William-James88

[sfcityduck]

7 hours ago, N e r V said:

 

I place Kirby in the highest ranks on any number of things but yes, I and many others prefer other artists over him on some of his titles. Kirby could only draw characters big and bigger. Worked great on things like Thor but not so much on Spider-Man or a Daredevil.

Others I like better is Buscema Surfer at least tied with me with Kirbys version.

Short run but I like Steranko Cap over Kirby Cap and the Thomas/Adams X-Men run was far better than the early Lee/Kirby X-Men until the new guys showed up in the 1970’s.

Romita Spider-Man started off trying to “ape” a bit of the Ditko style but he soon found his own voice on the series and gave it that quality newspaper strip drawing style. Thank gawd Romita was the introduction of MJ too. Ditko chicks all looked angry and b*tchy...lol

Gwen actually started looking hot under Romita. All those years drawing DC romance paid off handsomely for him...

 

For the Marvel biggees:

I'll take Kirby FF circa issues in the 40s to 60s over anyone, with Byrne second.

I'll take Ditko Spider-man, especially the first 10 issues, over anyone with Romita second.

Never liked the art on Hulk.

Thor is not my favorite character, but Kirby and Smonson come close to a tie for me, with Kirby getting the nod.

I'll take Layton Iron Man over anything, and don't have an opinion on second.

I'll take Perez Avengers over anyone, with Adams second.

I'll take Byrne X-Men over anyone, with Adams second.

Miller DD, and Jansen second maybe.

Kirby for Nick Fury by a mile, then Steranko.

Captain America just has never been a character I've collected in the SA.

 

 

[N e r V]

14 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

For the Marvel biggees:

I'll take Kirby FF circa issues in the 40s to 60s over anyone, with Byrne second.

I'll take Ditko Spider-man, especially the first 10 issues, over anyone with Romita second.

Never liked the art on Hulk.

Thor is not my favorite character, but Kirby and Smonson come close to a tie for me, with Kirby getting the nod.

I'll take Layton Iron Man over anything, and don't have an opinion on second.

I'll take Perez Avengers over anyone, with Adams second.

I'll take Byrne X-Men over anyone, with Adams second.

Miller DD, and Jansen second maybe.

Kirby for Nick Fury by a mile, then Steranko.

Captain America just has never been a character I've collected in the SA.

 

 

That’s a pretty good list IMO but I have to admit having collected comics since the 1970’s you are among the few I’ve seen picking Kirby over Steranko for Nick Fury/SHIELD. 
 

Story goes Steranko picked SHIELD because it wasn’t selling that hot due to Kirby not knowing how to handle that type of work. Like the X-Men series Kirby certainly did a lot of the groundwork but he seemed to be mailing it in mostly on the series. When he was still alive I asked him once which he preferred Nick Fury or Sgt. Fury and he went in to tell me about working on Sgt. Fury at length without ever mentioning Nick Fury so I assumed that answered that...lol

[sfcityduck]

5 minutes ago, N e r V said:

That’s a pretty good list IMO but I have to admit having collected comics since the 1970’s you are among the few I’ve seen picking Kirby over Steranko for Nick Fury/SHIELD. 
 

Story goes Steranko picked SHIELD because it wasn’t selling that hot due to Kirby not knowing how to handle that type of work. Like the X-Men series Kirby certainly did a lot of the groundwork but he seemed to be mailing it in mostly on the series. When he was still alive I asked him once which he preferred Nick Fury or Sgt. Fury and he went in to tell me about working on Sgt. Fury at length without ever mentioning Nick Fury so I assumed that answered that...lol

The only issue Jack penciled was Strange Tales 135, and it is by far the best origin story of Marvel's Silver Age in my humble opinion.

From 136-on, all Kirby was doing was lay outs (maybe with an issue exception).  So I'm basing my opinion on one issue.  Plus, I love Steranko's covers, but his interior art leaves me less inspired than many others.