1997 circulation numbers

[the blob]

I remember dropping out of reading new comics right around then. The whole clone thing soured me on spidey, i liked the age of apocolypse run, but I gave up on the whole onslaught thing after a couple of issues, didn't pay attention to heroes reborn or any of that junk. I do remember that at the time my friend who owned a shop complaining about how purchases were plummeting, but he did that for the next 2-3 years as well. i was only buying golden age, silver and some bronze at that point. Dropping new issue sales and ebay killing his back issue sales resulted in him closing up shop at the end of 1999.

 

Anyway, what were print runs on some of the big marvels back in 1997, 1998, 1999? I just bought some of the ones I missed out of the 50 cent bin, figuring at worst they weren't printed at obscene levels like in 1992 or thereabouts. I had already gone a long way in picking up a lot of the 2000s stuff I have missed (though not really on the ultimate books, i've stayed away from those mostly)

[awe4one]

Comparison of DC/Marveltitles published in both months...

 

Nov 2004 - April 1997 Sales Comparison

 

Other data for the Top 200...

 

Total Circulation Top 200 Comics:

 

November 2004: 6,184,360 copies

April 1997: 8,772,400 copies

Difference: - 2,588,040 copies (30% decrease)

 

# of Titles Selling Over 100,000 Copies:

 

November 2004: 7

April 1997: 22

 

# of Titles Selling Over 50,000 Copies:

 

November 2004: 31

April 1997: 54

 

# of Titles Selling Over 35,000 Copies (This used to be Marvel's cancellation threshold):

 

November 2004: 56

April 1997: 83

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

[uclapeterg]

Do you have the total estimated money being made by publishers? For example, a 30% decrease is pretty huge, but I think the increase in comic prices have made up for that difference.

[Psylocke Smythe-migration]

Do you have the total estimated money being made by publishers? For example, a 30% decrease is pretty huge, but I think the increase in comic prices have made up for that difference.

 

Just using rough math and figuring that all comics sold back in 1997 were $1.95 cover price and the comics sold in 2004 were $2.50 cover price. I know this is not the case, just easier way to do the math

 

The comics that were sold in 1997 had a total sale price of $17,106,180 during the month.

 

The comics that were sold in 2004 had a total sale price of $15,460,900 during the month.

 

So the difference is $1,645,280, and alot would matter on the discount diamond gets from the publishers, but looking at the numbers I think that the publishers would have made more money back in 1997 even at the lower price point due to more comics been sold. The price increases have not been able to counter act the drop in books sold.

 

Also according to Marvel's 2004 annual report, their publishing group gets 76% of revenue from the direct market, another 3 to 5% from ad revenue and the rest I would guess from Trade Paperbacks that they sell to book stores.

 

Psy

[uclapeterg]

Thanks for the estimate, Psylocke.

 

So it appears that the loss is about 10%?

[awe4one]

Do you have the total estimated money being made by publishers? For example, a 30% decrease is pretty huge, but I think the increase in comic prices have made up for that difference.

 

I do but the files are currently unavailable to me (on another computer)...

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

Do you have the total estimated money being made by publishers? For example, a 30% decrease is pretty huge, but I think the increase in comic prices have made up for that difference.

 

Sure, but unit sales are the important barometer, as "rising cover prices" is a dead end street in the long run.

[the blob]

ok, hard to tell title by title, but per title on the big books, probably better then than now (unless the numbers are better now than in 11/04), but not by a huge margin, i.e., 1992 figures were probably 400-600% higher across the board, 1997 looks like maybe 20-30% higher (seems like now more than ever marvel (and to a certain extent DC) are milking their main characters with spin-offs

[whetteon]

On the bright side, at least the industry rebound from say 2000. If they can continue to produce good stories and expand their markets to retailers as well as direct sale then maybe we're only a couple of years off from a complete recovery (I'm overly optimistic!)

[the blob]

i'm not sure what a complete recovery should be, but second tier titles like iron man, thor, captain america, etc. being over 100K would be a start. will probably never be to early/mid 80s 300K levels, but that's ok, and I wouldn't want early 90s levels because there were 1 or 2 more copies per title being printed than there were readers. at least nowadays there's a solid probability that 80-90% of the copies in circulation went to someone who planned on reading them.

[the blob]

i'm not sure what a complete recovery should be, but second tier titles like iron man, thor, captain america, etc. being over 100K would be a start. will probably never be to early/mid 80s 300K levels, but that's ok, and I wouldn't want early 90s levels because there were 1 or 2 more copies per title being printed than there were readers. at least nowadays there's a solid probability that 80-90% of the copies in circulation went to someone who planned on reading them.

[the blob]

i'm not sure what a complete recovery should be, but second tier titles like iron man, thor, captain america, etc. being over 100K would be a start. will probably never be to early/mid 80s 300K levels, but that's ok, and I wouldn't want early 90s levels because there were 1 or 2 more copies per title being printed than there were readers. at least nowadays there's a solid probability that 80-90% of the copies in circulation went to someone who planned on reading them.

[the blob]

i'm not sure what a complete recovery should be, but second tier titles like iron man, thor, captain america, etc. being over 100K would be a start. will probably never be to early/mid 80s 300K levels, but that's ok, and I wouldn't want early 90s levels because there were 1 or 2 more copies per title being printed than there were readers. at least nowadays there's a solid probability that 80-90% of the copies in circulation went to someone who planned on reading them.

[the blob]

i'm not sure what a complete recovery should be, but second tier titles like iron man, thor, captain america, etc. being over 100K would be a start. will probably never be to early/mid 80s 300K levels, but that's ok, and I wouldn't want early 90s levels because there were 1 or 2 more copies per title being printed than there were readers. at least nowadays there's a solid probability that 80-90% of the copies in circulation went to someone who planned on reading them.

[Psylocke Smythe-migration]

The way I see it, the publishers need bring in new people into the hobby before there can be a recovery. Without new people, then their customer base will continue to shrink and slowly the hobby dies. They need a way to attract new customers and continue to keep their existing customers. It does no one any good to have a 200K print run on a comic, have diamond state that the printing sold out, but have only 40% of them sell at the stores and the rest sit in 50 cent boxes.

 

i'm not sure what a complete recovery should be, but second tier titles like iron man, thor, captain america, etc. being over 100K would be a start. will probably never be to early/mid 80s 300K levels, but that's ok, and I wouldn't want early 90s levels because there were 1 or 2 more copies per title being printed than there were readers. at least nowadays there's a solid probability that 80-90% of the copies in circulation went to someone who planned on reading them.

 

I also pretty much agree with what the blob posted above, except that I feel that if they can get the 1st tier titles (top 15 books) back into the 150 to 175K range and then the 2nd tier back into the 70K range, that would be a good start as long as the increase was due to new customers and not variant covers or gimicks.

 

Psy

[Aman619]

interesting comparison between 1997 and 2004. But why 1997? Wasnt the low point AFTER 1997?

[joe_collector]

interesting comparison between 1997 and 2004. But why 1997? Wasnt the low point AFTER 1997?

 

Maybe, but I remember things slowly improving through 1998-2000, and then the comic book movie fad hit and new issues sales picked up a bit.

[Kevin Boyd]

How about we add in the July 2000 Diamond preorder numbers to add some more perspective:

 

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=808

 

and the Sales data for July 2005:

 

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/7375.html

 

Total Circulation:

 

July 2005: 6.54 Million copies

November 2004: 6,184,360 copies

July 2000: est. 6 Million copies

April 1997: 8,772,400 copies

 

# of Titles Selling Over 100,000 Copies:

 

July 2005: 6

November 2004: 7

July 2000: 3

April 1997: 22

 

# of Titles Selling Over 50,000 Copies:

 

July 2005: 40

November 2004: 31

July 2000: 18

April 1997: 54

 

# of Titles Selling Over 35,000 Copies (This used to be Marvel's cancellation threshold):

 

July 2005: 59

November 2004: 56

July 2000: 55

April 1997: 83

[Kevin Boyd]

Maybe, but I remember things slowly improving through 1998-2000, and then the comic book movie fad hit and new issues sales picked up a bit.

 

Quality of material improved slightly during those years but sales were still declining during that time (and Marvel was bankrupt then, which limited what they could afford to publish - plus Quesada and Jemas shrunk the Marvel lines considerably). Wish I had the 1995, 1996, 1998 & 1999 data available to see the true low point.