IN THE ERA OF COVID19...BUYER'S MARKET? 9 9

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

It's all a load of hooey.

BP is not a true reflection of a book's price, it's a commission, a fee, a tax, it is not part of the book's value. People can twist 'logic' any which way they like but BP is money for jam.

Let's say a book sells on ebay for $4200, then the next week a similar copy sells on Heritage for the same amount, but with inflated fees that puts it over 5 grand. That's an inflated price.

If people are daft enough, or rich enough to stump up BP then do not reflect it in sales data. That might help put a stop to it.

[Hollywood1892]

14 minutes ago, G G ® said:

It's all a load of hooey.

BP is not a true reflection of a book's price, it's a commission, a fee, a tax, it is not part of the book's value. People can twist 'logic' any which way they like but BP is money for jam.

Let's say a book sells on ebay for $4200, then the next week a similar copy sells on Heritage for the same amount, but with inflated fees that puts it over 5 grand. That's an inflated price.

If people are daft enough, or rich enough to stump up BP then do not reflect it in sales data. That might help put a stop to it.

Exactly!

[VintageComics]

41 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

So does that mean the book is worth $4200 or $5000?

The book is worth what someone ponied up to pay for it.

So if you spent $5000 to acquire the book, it's worth $5000.

I don't understand why someone has a problem factoring in the BP into the price being collected by GPA except that Heritage collects the BP.

It's no different than if someone buys a book from a middleman but the middleman charges a surcharge to make the deal happen. What the book sold for including the middleman is the value of the book.

Or do you not think that dealers should add their commission price into the value when they sell a book?

Just look at the Heritage BP as a commission that Heritage collects and it's no different. It's the cost of doing business with each respective company.

Edited May 31, 2020 by VintageComics

[Hollywood1892]

4 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

The book is worth what someone ponied up to pay for it.

So if you spent $5000 to acquire the book, it's worth $5000.

I don't understand why someone has a problem factoring in the BP into the price being collected by GPA except that Heritage collects the BP.

It's no different than if someone buys a book from a middleman but the middleman charges a surcharge to make the deal happen. What the book sold for including the middleman is the value of the book.

Or do you not think that dealers should add their commission price into the value when they sell a book?

Just look at the Heritage BP as a commission that Heritage collects and it's no different. It's the cost of doing business with each respective company.

But don't you find it to be an excessive rate or a evolving rate rather then a flat rate?

[VintageComics]

Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

But don't you find it to be an excessive rate or a evolving rate rather then a flat rate?

It still doesn't affect how much you're willing to spend in total so as a buyer, I don't care.

As a seller, I collect less but we're only talking about buyers here.

I think a lot of people confuse how they feel about the BP percentage with how they feel about the total price and the two really aren't the same thing.

You might dislike the percentage they charge but that still doesn't change the fact that you can spend whatever you want on the total price of the book.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

It's a matter (for me) purely of principle.

Principles are expensive and they can sometimes stand in the way of what you really want.

But I would rather have some principles than not.

The principle here for me is this;

Sellers pay a commission,fine, that's the way of the world. A BP is a commission on someone who merely wants to spend money.

There are enough taxes already in the world.

If ebay for example charged a BP, would it be as prolific or successful?

Hell no.

[Hollywood1892]

I have to agree with Paul

The middle man is making waaaaay too much $$$

[VintageComics]

Just now, TimeToShine said:

It does affect how much you're willing to pay for the comic though. Your qualifier of "in total" includes HA's fee for the privilege of bidding. I don't see why that fee should be included in the price of the comic.

I've never heard anyone complain about GPA including a dealer's consignment fee that everyone pays in the price of a sale before. Have you?

So how is this different?

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

3 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I've never heard anyone complain about GPA including a dealer's consignment fee that everyone pays in the price of a sale before. Have you?

Then maybe people should start making some noise. Things never change unless people make a stand.

Change happens when people reject the status quo.

This industry needs a revolution. It can happen, but it will only happen when people realise they have the power not to spend money.

 

[VintageComics]

2 minutes ago, TimeToShine said:

I'd have to see how they handle it. Got a link?

Well, most dealers charge a straight percentage.

Like BlazingBob and myself charge a consignment fee. It's pretty standard across the hobby.

Comiclink? Same thing.

[VintageComics]

2 minutes ago, G G ® said:

9 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I've never heard anyone complain about GPA including a dealer's consignment fee that everyone pays in the price of a sale before. Have you?

Then maybe people should start making some noise. Things never change unless people make a stand.

So if you're buying a book from a dealer (whether it be Highgrade, myself or Comiclink) and they all charge a 10% fee for buying from them you want that fee removed from recorded sales prices?

[VintageComics]

Just now, TimeToShine said:

Great. A link from GPA saying they do this and how they handle it would clear this up for me.

I don't have a link but we don't need one. It's commonly understood that GPA records the final, full sales price of the book which happens to include the consignment fee from all sellers.

The only difference is that with Heritage you see the consignment fee broken down in front of you whereas with other dealers it's generally silent because it's irrelevant - the final price you shell out is all that matters to GPA just like it's all that matters to your wallet.

 

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

3 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

So if you're buying a book from a dealer (whether it be Highgrade, myself or Comiclink) and they all charge a 10% fee for buying from them you want that fee removed from recorded sales prices?

My first question would be why are you charging a 10% fee?  What is the justification?

I would rather the fee not be charged in the first place, so my answer is yes.

However I have never bought from anyone who charges a stated fee for the privilege. If it's hidden and undisclosed, then that opens a whole other can of worms.

[Foolkiller]

1 hour ago, TimeToShine said:

Not really. He paid $4,200 and then some auction fees. Do GPA prices include how much the buyer paid for shipping and insurance? Ebay fees?  Paypal fees? Same thing to me, fees is fees.

It's somewhat semantics.  When I purchase a piece of art I don't think of it as two prices.  George (GP) does record from whatever the vendor, the total purchase price including the fees, BP or whatever. Now you may or may not feel that's 'accurate' but I as a buyer have no problem with it.  You pay what you pay and that's the number.  The data tells me what other folks paid.  I incorporated the fees into what I was willing to pay.  BPs are standard at every auction house I've ever participated in, and the number I paid including the BP is how I value the whole book.  if I saw the book on another site, I'd be willing to pay that same amount which included the BP factored in.  So in the example, I'm willing to pay 5k whether on Heritage, Comiclink, Ebay, highgradecomics.com etc.

[Foolkiller]

Just now, G G ® said:

My first question would be why are you charging a 10% fee?  What is the justification?

I would rather the fee not be charged in the first place, so my answer is yes.

However I have never bought from anyone who charges a stated fee for the privilege. If it's hidden and undisclosed, then that opens a whole other can of worms.

It's already factored into the price, there's no surcharge on top -- a dealer has the ability to incorporate it already.  At auction, they separate it.  It's not 'undisclosed', it's factored into the price, same as every other product that exists.  They factor in the whole cost of goods and the profits their shareholders often demand.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

5 minutes ago, Foolkiller said:

They factor in the whole cost of goods and the profits their shareholders often demand.

So Roy has shareholders?

In his recent sales thread (priced to sell) he has factored in a 10% surcharge on the books?

Interesting. 

[VintageComics]

13 minutes ago, G G ® said:

My first question would be why are you charging a 10% fee?  What is the justification?

I would rather the fee not be charged in the first place, so my answer is yes.

However I have never bought from anyone who charges a stated fee for the privilege. If it's hidden and undisclosed, then that opens a whole other can of worms.

Dealer A (let's say Comiclink) sells a book for a seller and collects 10%. This is generally accepted, standard fee although it varies from dealer to dealer.

Dealer B (let's say Heritage) sells a book for a seller and collects 20%.

The seller nets either 80% or 90% of the sale price of the book (the seller chose his consignment dealer and is OK with the fee)

Both books sell for exactly the same net price - Fair Market Value - which means whether you buy from dealer A or dealer B you pay the same price.

How does this affect you?

I think the confusion comes from Heritage constantly calculating the 20% in front of you AND for calling it a buyer premium but if you're focused on the final net selling price with the premium it's irrelevant.

Edited May 31, 2020 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

8 minutes ago, TimeToShine said:

Sorry but I need more proof/evidence than this to feel confident discussing it.

Proof of what? GPA collects the final price that you are out of wallet for.

[Foolkiller]

2 minutes ago, G G ® said:

So Roy has shareholders?

In his recent sales thread (priced to sell) he has factored in a 10% surcharge on the books?

Interesting. 

No I'm comparing his cost of goods to anyone else.  

You're characterizing it as a surcharge, and I would not.  He's saying he believes the cost of the book is x.  that's what's happened at auction.  The two are the same regardless of the fees because of the reflected or reported cost of the book is the same.  

I don't have an issue with it, and I think it's certainly your right to not buy comics from dealers or auction houses or whatever.  

[VintageComics]

7 minutes ago, G G ® said:

So Roy has shareholders?

In his recent sales thread (priced to sell) he has factored in a 10% surcharge on the books?

Interesting. 

I don't have shareholders or own shares in Heritage! This is how rumors get started!

If I were selling a book on consignment FOR SOMEONE ELSE I would be taking a small percentage (10%) of the sale price for doing the work of selling it. Just like every other dealer selling consignment books.

Just like every middle man ever.

But when I sell my own inventory I keep 100% of the sale price.

Hope that makes sense.