The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Kevin.J]

You guys were rich in the old money days, I used to get 1 shilling pocket money and that was only if I was good  that meant that I rarely got anything 

I did learn at some point to proper kick off in a shop when with my Mam, she hated the embarrassment of an unruly kid, so to keep me quiet, I would get a comic, outside the shop, the comic was took off me and I was grounded to my room, but at some point I would get the comic back.

It worked with Aunties too 

[Get Marwood & I]

[Malacoda]

On 7/24/2022 at 11:23 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Rich - one thing I'd love to see from you is a one-stop graphic / summary of the hiatus periods with your summary as to why you believe each existed duly recorded. I've lost track of it all now, in the discussion. It's your work that has discounted the previous shipping strike theories, so you should do the summary. I'd like to see that. 

Just before I dig into this, what kind of graphic were you imagining?  Obviously, I can stick a summary onto a picture of some description, but I assume you have in mind a graphic that would somehow enhance the explanation, make it easier to understand/digest and/or make things clearer by virtue of being a pictorial representation.....but I'm buggered if I can work out what that would be! 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 8/12/2022 at 2:19 AM, Malacoda said:

Just before I dig into this, what kind of graphic were you imagining?  Obviously, I can stick a summary onto a picture of some description, but I assume you have in mind a graphic that would somehow enhance the explanation, make it easier to understand/digest and/or make things clearer by virtue of being a pictorial representation.....but I'm buggered if I can work out what that would be! 

Sorry Rich, on the road today. Nothing fancy, a few words will do. Something like "There were no UKPVs during cover dates xxx to xxx because......."

You can use the hiatus dates from my Marvel UKPV journal entry or from the spreadsheet I sent you. 

https://boards.cgccomics.com/blogs/entry/4904-marvel-comics-uk-price-variants/

 

[themagicrobot]

On 8/5/2022 at 5:20 PM, Malacoda said:

OK, so far Mad has nailed it down to somewhere between Aug 63 and Dec 65.  Looks like I'll have to check the porn out.  I'll be back in a couple of months. 

The things I do for you boys. 

 

I bumped into a UK Mad 45 today and recalled the above. The subscription address is Oadby.

 I like the Thorpe and Porter Tee Pee logo that appears ..

There is a UK Mad 49 for sale on eBay. UK Mads weren't dated in the 1960s or 1970s. At first it was published 8 times per year and around 1965/1966 increased to monthly. Could that change happen due to changes in office/location/personel? We know Mad 49 is the January 1966 issue by virtue of the cover. It has a Thurmaston address for subscriptions.

Mad 48 must be the December 1965 issue by virtue of its cover, so perusing UK Mads 46,47,48 should give the approximate month of the move from Oadby to Thurmaston (we don't know for sure if UK Mad was monthly at this point).. Although why this information has any relevance with anything more than idle speculation I'm unsure. Unless the move of office/warehouse coincides with Marvel UKPVs halting and price ink stamping re-commencing??

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Malacoda]

On 8/13/2022 at 6:41 PM, themagicrobot said:

I bumped into a UK Mad 45 today and recalled the above. The subscription address is Oadby.

 

 I like the Thorpe and Porter Tee Pee logo that appears ..

 

There is a UK Mad 49 for sale on eBay. UK Mads weren't dated in the 1960s or 1970s. At first it was published 8 times per year and around 1965/1966 increased to monthly. Could that change happen due to changes in office/location/personel? We know Mad 49 is the January 1966 issue by virtue of the cover. It has a Thurmaston address for subscriptions.

Mad 48 must be the December 1965 issue by virtue of its cover, so perusing UK Mads 46,47,48 should give the approximate month of the move from Oadby to Thurmaston (we don't know for sure if UK Mad was monthly at this point).. Although why this information has any relevance with anything more than idle speculation I'm unsure. Unless the move of office/warehouse coincides with Marvel UKPVs halting and price ink stamping re-commencing??

 

 

 

First off....

Nice catch on 45.  Many thanks.   I saw 2 or 3 of these on ebay, but no pics of indicias, so that's a big win. 

As you say, we don't know the exact numbering, but according to the Mad website (which I think is fan not official, but one would hope they have some expertise), it ran 7 or 8 times per year from 1959 to 1965 and then went monthly in 1966.  

You can probably make multiple iterations of this, but for arguments sake, if we assume it was 7 times per year for the first 2 years then stepped up to 8, we'd be at no 46 by Sept 1965....

and then 47 in Oct or Nov,  the Christmas issue we know was 48 and can assume was published in December and the NY issue we know was 49 and can assume was published in January.  So it kind of works, and puts the indicia change from Oadby to Thurmaston somewhere between September and December 1965.  

It's possible, of course, that the admin didn't catch up immediately and the old address remained in print, but given that the old address burned down, I reckon they would have been on top of this. 

To your point about relevance, you're correct, it has no relevance that I am so far aware of, to the stamping, but to be honest, I'm not really interested in the stamping except in terms of what it reveals about distribution.  My interest here is to understand the ownership structure of T&P in between the period when Fred left and IND bought it out.  There are competing theories and if, as it looks, the move to Thurmaston was smack in this period, it surely has something to tell me. 

Also, it's interesting that Mad may have gone monthly right at the time they moved to Thurmaston.  Is that a coincidence or causal?  Could be that with higher overheads to cover, they needed to milk the Mad cow (see what I did there?), or could be that they had always wanted to increase distribution and the upgrade to Thurmaston made it feasible?

Also, in Steve Chibnall's article, he references the move to Thurmaston as being one of the causes of the bankruptcy, so it's interesting that the move seems to fall about 7-10 months in front of that. 

Also, of course, as I'm sure you know better than me, we have all learned stuff that seemed irrelevant to key subjects at the time, but as the jigsaw takes shape you suddenly realise, in a Columbo stylee, who the murderer is.  I've discovered quite a few answers hiding in plain sight, but you have to pile up lots of clues before you get to say...

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Malacoda

[themagicrobot]

So I actually got round to reading that UK Mad 45 later yesterday. They used to edit the US material for our consumption. Some of the letters would be given UK addresses. At one time they changed $$$s to £££s. So the spoof on a Hairdressing magazine has been changed from ?? cents  to 2/6. And there front and centre it says September. So I think we can safely say UK Mad was monthly at least from 45 onwards. 

45 September 65

46 October 65

47 November 65

48 December 65

49 January 66

Will number 46 turn out to be the first one showing a Thurmaston address? I've just ordered a copy to find out. Will I have a smug look on my face like "Modest Maiden" sporting a hairstyle designed by Mr John of Wormwood Scrubbs??

Edited August 14, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Albert Tatlock]

On 8/13/2022 at 6:41 PM, themagicrobot said:

perusing UK Mads 46,47,48 should give the approximate month of the move from Oadby to Thurmaston

I have looked through all my MADs from this period.

Up to 47 it was Oadby, 48 onwards was Thurmaston.

[Albert Tatlock]

On 8/14/2022 at 2:13 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

I have looked through all my MADs from this period.

Up to 47 it was Oadby, 48 onwards was Thurmaston.

 

[themagicrobot]

Thanks Albert! No smug look like Modest Maiden for me. You can have the smug look although Mr Tatlock always looks like he’s frowning even when he’s happy and drinking beer.

My mother doesn’t like the current episodes and is watching a boxed set of early episodes one per night. We are related to Jack Walker. He could have been the double of my Grandad

I’ve wasted £7.99 on UK Mad 46 that could have been better spent on alcohol or a new She Hulk

And I guess @Malacoda won’t be happy until he knows the day of the week of the move.

 

 

 

 

[Malacoda]

On 8/14/2022 at 2:57 PM, themagicrobot said:

And I guess @Malacoda won’t be happy until he knows the day of the week of the move.

The day of the week, the name of the moving company, the name of the MD, the name of his dog....

Seriously, heartfelt thanks to both of you.  It's really seldom you find a smoking gun and this is one. Steve Chibnall suggests that the move to Thurmaston was probably a cause of the bankruptcy.  Something I was always curious to know was:  did they move straight from Oadby to Thurmaston overnight or were there stopgap premises.  The fact that Thurmaston appears literally a month after Oadby indicates to me it was an immediate move and therefore likely a force majeure which does substantiate (or certainly does not contradict) the idea that they moved into premises they could not really afford because they had to move fast (and, I reckon, nearby as they obviously did not want to lose staff at the same time they lost the HQ building and they must have been in a state of some chaos....I've no idea how much stock burned). 

Profound thanks to both of you for this one. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Malacoda

[themagicrobot]

I would have assumed that if a warehouse burnt down it might at least get a mention in the local paper. All I can find are some classified ads, many from the 1950s when the company was growing. In September 1966 they are advertising for someone seeking temporary employment up to Xmas namely "light interesting work on magazines and books" which probably translates to price stamping?!? They were offering a 30 minute lunch break too!

As these are scanned from Microfiche they do often look quite garbled. In 1954 and 1960 they were in trouble for "the sensational type of comics" . Reprints of pre-code Black Magics perhaps? In 1959 they were advertising for an Artist...an ideal position for a young man or girl.

Edited August 14, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Albert Tatlock]

'We require an intelligent young lady'...............

But they eventually lowered their sights, and Ethel got the job.

 

[Malacoda]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:59 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

'We require an intelligent young lady'...............

But they eventually lowered their sights, and Ethel got the job.

 

But then it says 'Apply Sex Ho'. Sounds like an interesting position. 

[Malacoda]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:03 PM, themagicrobot said:

I would have assumed that if a warehouse burnt down it might at least get a mention in the local paper. All I can find are some classified ads, many from the 1950s when the company was growing. In September 1966 they are advertising for someone seeking temporary employment up to Xmas namely "light interesting work on magazines and books" which probably translates to price stamping?!? They were offering a 30 minute lunch break too!

As these are scanned from Microfiche they do often look quite garbled. In 1954 and 1960 they were in trouble for "the sensational type of comics" . Reprints of pre-code Black Magics perhaps? In 1959 they were advertising for an Artist...an ideal position for a young man or girl.

This is absolutely amazing stuff.   I have tried to search the Leicester Mercury a couple of times and found nothing.  I didn't even know there was a Leicester Chronicle or a Leicester Evening Mail.  Phenomenal.  Is this from the British  Newspaper Archive or somewhere else?  This is really amazing.  My flabber has never been so gasted. 

[themagicrobot]

There’s no doubt much more if you subscribe

You are supposed to be able to enlarge and print three things for free and after that you need to subscribe. I tried to subscribe but never got the return email with password confirmation. And I spent an hour filling in multiple fields for advanced search using street names and months etc and just got a 404 page

I feel sure that somewhere online there will be a newspaper article that fills in many gaps in our knowledge possibly with interviews with staff and manager.

Might have another go tonight if I get a free half hour.

 

 

[themagicrobot]

Believe it or not Oadby had its own weekly newspaper too

The Oadby and Wigston somethingorother

Dunno if that is online but I bet their archives would be interesting

Edited August 15, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Malacoda]

On 8/15/2022 at 1:32 PM, themagicrobot said:

Believe it or not Oadby had its own weekly newspaper too

The Oadby and Wigston somethingorother

Two by the looks of things.  The Oadby & Wigston Advertiser and the Oadby & Wigston News. I feel like the competition must have been intense.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Malacoda

[Malacoda]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:03 PM, themagicrobot said:

In September 1966 they are advertising for someone seeking temporary employment up to Xmas namely "light interesting work on magazines and books" which probably translates to price stamping?

Wouldn't be surprised.  That's how I'd recruit for that kind of job - find someone reliable and then offer a full time position.  That said, labour laws were different in the 60's.  I imagine it was easier to hire & fire then and you probably weren't expecting someone to spend 40 years in the stamping shed anyway. 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 8/15/2022 at 1:02 PM, Malacoda said:

But then it says 'Apply Sex Ho'. Sounds like an interesting position. 

And the job is 'PANT-TIME'.

Ethel must have been intrigued, and couldn't wait to find out more.