The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Redshade]

On 2/5/2024 at 9:08 PM, themagicrobot said:

1962 so 62 years young. I think they are original and genuine. I will know for sure when mine arrives 😊 

I thought the only 1980s facsimiles were Marvelman family stuff?

I found these photos of some (all?) of Whitworth's catalogue pages on an old phone.
 

Edited February 6 by Redshade

[themagicrobot]

So what is Mr Whitworth's story? Did he just copy/reproduce issues as and when he received orders? Or did he actually make copies of everything in that booklet? In the 1980s demand for 99% of that stuff was non-existent. With inventory and no sales he would soon go bust. There was no Interweb to facilitate sales. But if too many fakes are still around now won't they fool the CGC graders?? And where did he stand legally, especially copying Superadventure/Superboy/Superman comics.

I think I will start a business copying Gold Token comics. As I will have gullible investors despite zero sales I will still become rich like Max Bialystock in The Producers.

[Get Marwood & I]

Finally!

 

 

Courtesy of eBay.....

 

 

I'll update that table soon, as there are many more 10d / shilling circle examples in and around the two month UKPV hiatus window

 

[OtherEric]

A question that somebody here might have an answer to, that is completely off topic... to the point of being the opposite of the topic, in fact.

Does anybody know a) the first time UK produced material was printed in an US comic, and b) the first time a UK produced comic was distributed in the US?

The earliest examples I'm aware of for a)... and in both cases I may be way off on the actual books... are the John Steed & Emma Peel comic produced by Gold Key, which reprints material originally printed in TV comic.

The earliest example for b) would be Warrior #1, or at least it's the earliest UK produced book I'm aware of with dual US pricing.  I suppose it's far from impossible that US distribution of 2000 AD had started earlier, but that doesn't have the printed US price so it's harder to figure out when it started.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/6/2024 at 5:35 PM, OtherEric said:

The earliest examples I'm aware of for a)... and in both cases I may be way off on the actual books... are the John Steed & Emma Peel comic produced by Gold Key, which reprints material originally printed in TV comic.

I don't know the answer to this Eric, but Danger Man springs to mind. I don't know without looking if the Dell FC issue of that was US original or a reprint of UK content. 

[OtherEric]

On 2/6/2024 at 9:47 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I don't know the answer to this Eric, but Danger Man springs to mind. I don't know without looking if the Dell FC issue of that was US original or a reprint of UK content. 

GCD shows the Danger Man issue as US created material, but the reliability of the GCD on something like this can be spotty at times.  They list Tony Tallarico as the artist, and he did a lot of work for Dell at the time, though.

[Redshade]

On 2/6/2024 at 8:51 AM, themagicrobot said:

So what is Mr Whitworth's story? Did he just copy/reproduce issues as and when he received orders? Or did he actually make copies of everything in that booklet? In the 1980s demand for 99% of that stuff was non-existent. With inventory and no sales he would soon go bust. There was no Interweb to facilitate sales. But if too many fakes are still around now won't they fool the CGC graders?? And where did he stand legally, especially copying Superadventure/Superboy/Superman comics.

I think I will start a business copying Gold Token comics. As I will have gullible investors despite zero sales I will still become rich like Max Bialystock in The Producers.

 

I don't know a lot about Whitworth. I know (from various "blogs" back in the day) he used to produce fanzines and latterly some of the "Complete Guide to . . ."  type self- published books and was friends with (and borrowed the comics from) the big collectors/dealers of the day. Apparently not all comics in the lists were produced and those that were never had more than a half a dozen copied printed. It was not as if the market was flooded with these things. Other than that, I don't have any more information.

[Redshade]

On 2/6/2024 at 8:51 AM, themagicrobot said:

So what is Mr Whitworth's story? Did he just copy/reproduce issues as and when he received orders? Or did he actually make copies of everything in that booklet? In the 1980s demand for 99% of that stuff was non-existent. With inventory and no sales he would soon go bust. There was no Interweb to facilitate sales. But if too many fakes are still around now won't they fool the CGC graders?? And where did he stand legally, especially copying Superadventure/Superboy/Superman comics.

I think I will start a business copying Gold Token comics. As I will have gullible investors despite zero sales I will still become rich like Max Bialystock in The Producers.

 

". . .  and no sales he would soon go bust.".

I think that the enterprise was more of a side-line than a steady flow of income.

"And where did he stand legally, especially copying Superadventure/Superboy/Superman comics".

Notice that he always copied reprint comics  rather than directly from DC issues. Even so I would imagine that he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on from a legal point of view.

[Albert Tatlock]

On 2/6/2024 at 11:26 PM, Redshade said:

". . .  and no sales he would soon go bust.".

I think that the enterprise was more of a side-line than a steady flow of income.

"And where did he stand legally, especially copying Superadventure/Superboy/Superman comics".

Notice that he always copied reprint comics  rather than directly from DC issues. Even so I would imagine that he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on from a legal point of view.

From an old copy of ICJ.

Bryon is circulating his readership in an attempt to gather material to reproduce, it seems.

£4 to borrow each item of interest. I am not sure how many he would need to sell to break even, not a lot, I  suppose.

More of a hobby than a business, I reckon.

Edited February 6 by Albert Tatlock
add 1 line

[Redshade]

On 2/6/2024 at 11:44 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

From an old copy of ICJ.

Bryon is circulating his readership in an attempt to gather material to reproduce, it seems.

£4 to borrow each item of interest, I am not sure how many he would need to sell to break even.

More of a hobby than a business, I reckon.

 

I have never seen this periodical before Albert. The only name that I recognise apart from Denis Gifford is Steve Holland, although it gives an idea of where B Whitworth was coming from (and I don't mean Lancashire). I wonder what The Showroom was?

[themagicrobot]

Fanzines eh? Like a horse and cart compared to the Mustang V8 of today's instant communication. Once a month or more often quarterly. Writing letters of comment or sending in wants lists. Lists of comics for sale but no mention of the condition of the comic concerned. I think mine were thrown away about the same time as I disposed of all my Gary Glitter records. Talking of people we don't talk about, I found this in the loft last year.

  

[themagicrobot]

I was wondering if that Mandrake 23 was indeed a fake. It had rusty staples. Was that a clue. All square bound Class Comics were just glued. No staples ever used. So I pulled out an old (genuine) Miller. It is definitely glued AND stapled. You can just make out the bottom staple on the back cover.

 

The ad on the inside cover talks of 9d comics and 1/- comics. I presume the 9d comics refer to Archies/Charltons/Marvels. You'd think he'd give them more ad exposure in his other comics. Interesting too that this issue contains a 1950s Human Torch story.

Talking of staples, some Thorpe and Porter comics use them and some from virtually the same time period don't. It's an odd world where odd people are dissecting old comics like this.

 

 

 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 2/6/2024 at 11:59 PM, Redshade said:

I have never seen this periodical before Albert. The only name that I recognise apart from Denis Gifford is Steve Holland, although it gives an idea of where B Whitworth was coming from (and I don't mean Lancashire). I wonder what The Showroom was?

Here are a couple of pictures of the old and the new wings of the Showroom.

Probably.

[Malacoda]

From William Jones book on Classics Illustrated: 

"In 1940, Elliott Publishing Company began re-packaging pairs of remaindered comic books in a 128 page format called Double Comics. Pairs of coverless comics from different publishers were bound together with new covers and sold for the price of one."

Now there's an idea. 

[Redshade]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:59 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Here are a couple of pictures of the old and the new wings of the Showroom.

Probably.

 

"That one on the top level there please".

[Malacoda]

On 2/6/2024 at 5:47 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I don't know the answer to this Eric, but Danger Man springs to mind. I don't know without looking if the Dell FC issue of that was US original or a reprint of UK content. 

Wow. Good shout. The Avengers is from 1968 So Danger Man would long predate it.  Note, Danger Man being the original series and Secret Agent being the US title of the resurrected series, both Dell's DM and Gold Key's SA predate the Avengers by 7 and 2 years respectively, though nothing suggests they had access to any UK originals.   Hopefully, one of our pals operating at a level of completism that probably warrants medication, can retrieve the relevant issues from their meticulously curated collections. 

[Malacoda]

On 2/6/2024 at 5:35 PM, OtherEric said:

Does anybody know a) the first time UK produced material was printed in an US comic, and b) the first time a UK produced comic was distributed in the US?

I can't answer this question, Eric, but it's a great question. 

Actually, if I want to be a real smart-arse, I can answer the first one. I reckon it would be the Classic Comics Ivanhoe in December 1941.  But that's not what you mean by UK produced material, is it?  

[OtherEric]

On 2/7/2024 at 8:04 PM, Malacoda said:

I can't answer this question, Eric, but it's a great question. 

Actually, if I want to be a real smart-arse, I can answer the first one. I reckon it would be the Classic Comics Ivanhoe in December 1941.  But that's not what you mean by UK produced material, is it?  

I fully respect the smart-arse answer, as long as we continue to look for the non smart-arse answer as well.

Also, Gulliver’s Travels showed up in New Comics #1, in December of 1935.  Illustrated by Walt Kelly, even.

[themagicrobot]

It can't just have been a one way street. If we were getting your comic strips like the Katzenjammer Kids in our newspapers 100 years ago, surely, due to the insatiable demand for material, the chances are some of our strips would have been sold to your syndicates. So as well as newspapers, perhaps one or two UK comic strips may have appeared in some early 1930s "comics"? 

Ally Sloper is claimed to be the first comic character back in the Victorian period. Perhaps he crossed the Atlantic? Or not.

 

 

[OtherEric]

On 2/8/2024 at 12:38 AM, themagicrobot said:

It can't just have been a one way street. If we were getting your comic strips like the Katzenjammer Kids in our newspapers 100 years ago, surely, due to the insatiable demand for material, the chances are some of our strips would have been sold to your syndicates. So as well as newspapers, perhaps one or two UK comic strips may have appeared in some early 1930s "comics"? 

 

The earliest UK comic strip that I know for sure got US distribution was Andy Capp.  Doesn't mean there weren't earlier examples, it's just the one I remember from the funny pages when I was a kid.