The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Get Marwood & I]

27 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

I suspect there may be a CS for every PV. If this is the case, it would certainly strengthen the idea that these are not random (i.e. not returns) but that distribution was a fully dual system after April 1969. 

As we discussed offline Rich, you would need to research this for years to build up the full picture. Three sweeps of the web will give a snapshot, but it takes years of sweeping to find all the available examples. If only I had had the foresight to gather examples of stamped copies during the many years spent gathering the UKPVs...

[Malacoda]

Just now, Get Marwood & I said:

As we discussed offline Rich, you would need to research this for years to build up the full picture. Three sweeps of the web will give a snapshot, but it takes years of sweeping to find all the available examples. I only I had had the foresight to gather stamped copies during the many years of gathering the UKPVs...

Fully agree, but I think the fact that you can get it down to 16% virtually without trying (precisely without years of effort), indicates there was a pretty strong supply. For some issues, there are more CS's than PV's around now and we know that the PV's were some kind of large fixed number (we don't know what, and presumably it changed with demand, but it would have been a fixed and scheduled order based on demand in the UK market). For there to be more CS copies left now, there would have to be a significant volume of them. 

[Malacoda]

On 4/15/2021 at 3:20 PM, Garystar said:

However when you look at release dates (from MikesAmazingWorld), as opposed to cover dates, the ones with stamps are those released on or previous to 13/4/971. Issues after 13/4/71 eg Avengers 90, Daredevil 78, FF 112, don't appear to have stamped issues so I think your theory holds up albeit with actual release dates rather than cover dates. I have not found any issues after July 1971 with stamps.

Not that we were in much doubt about this 13/4/71 line in the sand, but I was just meandering through my archive when I noticed what I think must be the very last T&P straggler (famous last words, obviously),  Special Marvel Edition 3 cover dated September 1971, so well inside World territory.  If anything was going to jeopardise the 13/4 date, it would be this. 

But no. Cover date Sept 1971, release date.....13/4/71.  Feast your eyes, Gentlemen. Until someone proves otherwise (about 5 seconds after I post this), I think this is chronologically, the last ever T&P stamped Marvel comic. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Malacoda

[Garystar]

7 hours ago, Malacoda said:

But no. Cover date Sept 1971, release date.....13/4/71. 

This seemed odd at first, a 5 month shelf life between release and cover dates. However looking at some of Marvels other reprint titles around the same time they also have a 5 month gap - Marvel Tales 32, Fear 5, marvels greatest comics 32 (might tie for last stamp) mighty marvel western 14 ... so this appears to have been deliberate. 

[Get Marwood & I]

14 hours ago, Malacoda said:

Not that we were in much doubt about this 13/4/71 line in the sand, but I was just meandering through my archive when I noticed what I think must be the very last T&P straggler (famous last words, obviously),  Special Marvel Edition 3 cover dated September 1971, so well inside World territory.  If anything was going to jeopardise the 13/4 date, it would be this. 

But no. Cover date Sept 1971, release date.....13/4/71.  Feast your eyes, Gentlemen. Until someone proves otherwise (about 5 seconds after I post this), I think this is chronologically, the last ever T&P stamped Marvel comic. 

Great spot Rich - I haven't found a later stamped cover date so far.

6 hours ago, Garystar said:

This seemed odd at first, a 5 month shelf life between release and cover dates. However looking at some of Marvels other reprint titles around the same time they also have a 5 month gap - Marvel Tales 32, Fear 5, marvels greatest comics 32 (might tie for last stamp) mighty marvel western 14 ... so this appears to have been deliberate. 

Looking at some of the US examples on eBay, two actually have arrival dates a week earlier:

That's some gap isn't it!

Though I haven't found another stamped example later than July cover date myself, there would be a nice symmetry if the T&P stamps did stop at cover date September 1971 given the gaps, decimalisation switch and swift halving of UKPVs the following month:

[Malacoda]

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Though I haven't found another stamped example later than July cover date myself, there would be a nice symmetry if the T&P stamps did stop at cover date September 1971 given the gaps, decimalisation switch and swift halving of UKPVs the following month:

It wasn't a halving of the PV's, it was a halving of output, full stop. I suspect it had more to do with the massive overreach in November.  They tried to jump to 52 pages in November which clearly was unviable, but they also produced GS annuals for Iron Man, Sgt Fury, Xmen, Millie the Model, Mad About Millie and they launched Marvel Spotlight.  They went from 26 normal size titles in Sept, down to 15 normal size titles in October, then back up to 25 titles in November, of which 22 were giant sized.  Some of this was just the ups & downs of the bi-monthly / erratic publication schedule, but I can’t believe it’s a coincidence that titles like Thor, Avengers & Daredevil skipped one month in the midst of years of regular publication and it happened to be the month before they doubled in size. 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 5/30/2021 at 4:53 PM, Malacoda said:

It wasn't a halving of the PV's, it was a halving of output, full stop

Fair enough 

[Albert Tatlock]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mystery-in-Space-77-DC-Comics-G-VG-Adam-Strange-vs-Ku-Dann-/234018696369?hash=item367c99ecb1%3Ag%3Aeh4AAOSwZ9Fgp9kI&nma=true&si=4u4TwiMssU7409xu5XFRJpEqDcM%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Now here is a step forward in our research.

This item was sent out by DC as a subscription copy, and the recipient then forwarded it to T & P to be stamped and put on sale in the UK.

Who woulda thought it?

Just shows what a bit of determination and expert knowledge can come up with.

Wonder how much T & P paid the subscriber for this little gem.

[Garystar]

56 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mystery-in-Space-77-DC-Comics-G-VG-Adam-Strange-vs-Ku-Dann-/234018696369?hash=item367c99ecb1%3Ag%3Aeh4AAOSwZ9Fgp9kI&nma=true&si=4u4TwiMssU7409xu5XFRJpEqDcM%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Now here is a step forward in our research.

This item was sent out by DC as a subscription copy, and the recipient then forwarded it to T & P to be stamped and put on sale in the UK.

Who woulda thought it?

Just shows what a bit of determination and expert knowledge can come up with.

Wonder how much T & P paid the subscriber for this little gem.

How can you tell this? I see what looks like a subscription crease but could it not simply be a regular T&P which some one has folded up to put in their pocket?

I can’t imagine an individual sending the odd copy to T&P and I can’t imagine T&P getting stock via subscription. Puzzling. 

[themagicrobot]

I think Albert was using a technique we call "humour". We need more here and in current episodes of Coronation Street.

All my comics aged 10 had a "subscription crease" as that was the only way they fitted into my back jeans pocket. I think Overstreet use the terminology for any comic with a fold in it. True that subscription comics were folded in the 1950s and 1960s which may explain why there were so few subscription comics sold compared to newsstand editions (when you look at those "statement of ownership " thingies).

Mad Magazines purchased unseen second hand can have the odd problem of a double "subscription crease" just on the back cover due to Al Jafee's "Mad fold-in" found in most issues from the mid 1960s onwards. . 

[Albert Tatlock]

3 hours ago, themagicrobot said:

I think Albert was using a technique we call "humour"

Indeed. I am also a subscriber, to the lowest form of wit.

I too have several creases, and more are appearing as the years wear on.

[Garystar]

Doh! Went right over my head. Serves me right for reading late at night. 

[Albert Tatlock]

At least it is not, as is usual from this seller, described as a UK price variant.

[Malacoda]

On 5/30/2021 at 7:09 AM, Garystar said:

This seemed odd at first, a 5 month shelf life between release and cover dates. However looking at some of Marvels other reprint titles around the same time they also have a 5 month gap - Marvel Tales 32, Fear 5, marvels greatest comics 32 (might tie for last stamp) mighty marvel western 14 ... so this appears to have been deliberate. 

But it's actually only the GS reprint titles that have that delay.  The normal size ones (Where Creatures Roam, Where Monsters Dwell, Where Behemoth's Belch, Where Dinosaurs Fart) were all  the usual 3 month delay.  

Hey Gary, do you have a stamp of Marvel's Greatest Comics 32 or Marvel Tales 32?  I have these down as probable Non D.

[Garystar]

18 hours ago, Malacoda said:

 

Hey Gary, do you have a stamp of Marvel's Greatest Comics 32 or Marvel Tales 32?  I have these down as probable Non D.

No. Mine are unstamped cents. I too have these on my list as the start of ND. I only suggested MGC 32 as possible latest stamp as it has same time frame as the Special Marvel Edition you posted but I don’t think there will be one. 

[Malacoda]

5 hours ago, Garystar said:

No. Mine are unstamped cents. I too have these on my list as the start of ND. I only suggested MGC 32 as possible latest stamp as it has same time frame as the Special Marvel Edition you posted but I don’t think there will be one. 

MT 32 would definitely be an upset if it turned up, but MGC 32 shares that 13/4 release date, so there actually should be stamps of it, but like yourself, I ain't seen one yet 

[Garystar]

This week ComicTom’s hot comics included X-Men #50, I noticed the image he showed was a T&P - presumably that’s what bumped up the price;

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, Garystar said:

that’s what bumped up the price

Not as bumped up as this price............

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/mullens-laural-park/catalogue-id-srmull10120/lot-a4054757-3302-4118-9883-ad3b012380df

[Malacoda]

This is completely off topic, but I thought you might find it interesting.  I've been looking at the Transworld reprint titles (what we used to call British Marvel) from 72 to 79 and a couple of things which I already knew really came alive for me. 

Firstly, it always seemed that Transworld reprinted anything and everything as fast and as much as they could.  My favourite reprint title was The Super Heroes because it reprinted initially the Silver Surfer and the X men and later a really delirious, almost wilfully obscure collection of Marvel second stringers, such as The Cat, Doc Savage, Giant Man,  The Scarecrow, Bloodstone & The Black Knight. It was a great way for serious UK collectors to get the series they were never going to get in the original, but as a commercial title it was doomed to failure: the strips it printed were ones that had already failed in the States and even if they did catch on in the UK, there was only a limited supply as the source material was a cancelled comic.

It seemed like Transworld just re-printed everything.  The surprise is that they actually did.

With the exception of the Panther run in Jungle Action, Transworld took a swing at every single Marvel title printed from 1961 to 1975 (meaning the shared MU, not romance & westerns).  They didn’t get through every issue of every one, but they gave it a good try. I never realised this because so many of them were back up strips in the comics I didn’t read:  Kazar, Gulliver Jones, Doc Doom, Warlock & Captain Marvel in POTA, Werewolf by Night, Man Thing & Ghost Rider in Dracula Lives,  Kull in Conan, and Star Lord, Warlock, Micronauts, Deathlok and Guardians of the Galaxy in Star Wars.  

Literally everything was tapped to one extent or another except Jungle Action and The Frankenstein Monster (although I was sure this was reprinted in Drac?).

The second surprise was this: we know that the reason Stan asked Dez Skinn to revamp British Marvel was because Marvel UK was running out of content, but I didn’t realise that it actually hit the buffers.  I knew POTA and Drac had exhausted their material early on because they only had a 29 issue head start with Drac and POTA was reprinted from the bi-monthly magazine, not a comic, so they ran out almost immediately (and created original content for the UK comic which was then re-used for the US magazine).   However, the marquee titles were getting close to the end as well.  Avengers was 85% depleted, Daredevil 82%, Transworld had burned through 16 years of Fantastic Four in 6 years & 4 months, so they were 5 months away from running out, but Hulk was even nearer.  MWOM finished in Jan 1979, at which point it was reprinting Hulk from December 1978. Even given the different lengths in production schedules, MWOM would have tapped Hulk out completely within one more month.  The record would have been set by Rampage Weekly: if they hadn’t changed the format in June 78, Rampage would have printed the entire run of Defenders (up to that point) in 14 months, running it out even before Dez Skinn’s Revolution.

I knew both of these things were true, but I’m astonished by how true they are.

BTW, this is complete coincidence, but, as you know, World were prevented from distributing US titles which were UK masthead or lead features.  Avengers was NON D from #121 to #152, and then became distributed again from #153.   The last Marvel UK issue of Super Spider Man (#310) reprinted Avengers #152.  So the reprints eventually covered the exact period it was Non D. If you’d bought the US originals when they were available and the UK reprints when they weren’t, you’d have an exactly full set of Avengers.

Also, can anyone please advise, which would taste worst...a harvest of terror or a harvest of fear?

[Get Marwood & I]

Nicely done Rich