PGM Doll Man 25 2 2

[William-James88]

My main issue here is how faded this comic is, but I don't know how much that would affect the grade. There is some writing on the cover that someone tried to erase at some point, or so it seems.

[theCapraAegagrus]

3.0 IMO.

[KCOComics]

Are the staples rusty? 

I'm thinking 3.0 as well. 

[William-James88]

2 hours ago, KCOComics said:

Are the staples rusty? 

I'm thinking 3.0 as well. 

Not sure if they are rusty. They are still shiny silver though the bottom one does have a small dark speck on it.

In any case, the kind of discolouration/rust found here is ok for an 8.0 so I am not sure what is bringing down the grade to a 3.0.
I mean, most people gave this issue a 3.0 and it is riddled with spine wear and colour breaking creases across the front cover 

This one has none of that so I don't see why the grade would be so low.

Edited July 28, 2020 by William-James88

[KCOComics]

I went 3.0 because at first glance the staples looked rusty. 

There is also alot of creasing on the back cover and I knocked it down a bit for the earsed name. 

I do think the front cover looks much nicer than a 3.0 

If the staples aren't rusty,  I would move it up to 4.0 / 4.5 personally. 

[Deadpoolica]

4.5

[Galen130]

3 hours ago, Deadpoolica said:

4.5

Agreed.

[William-James88]

10 hours ago, KCOComics said:

I went 3.0 because at first glance the staples looked rusty. 

There is also alot of creasing on the back cover and I knocked it down a bit for the earsed name. 

I do think the front cover looks much nicer than a 3.0 

If the staples aren't rusty,  I would move it up to 4.0 / 4.5 personally. 

Thanks for getting back to me. This makes me wonder something (and everyone can chime in, I'd welcome that), how much does staple rust lower a grade? I ask because it's one aspect that is not clear to me at all, even after years in this hobby. Is it like a tear or colour breaking crease where there are certain grades that are now unatainable due to their existence? Or is it an extra defect that will always bring your coming down an extra point lower, like an additive fault? From what you are saying, it seems additive. Like nomatter how low, having staple rust will bring it lower (unless you feel staple rust would not be ok on a 4.0).

I ask because have some really nice SA books where the main flaw is that the staples are rusty and I have no clue how much that detracts from the grade.

[KCOComics]

10 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

Thanks for getting back to me. This makes me wonder something (and everyone can chime in, I'd welcome that), how much does staple rust lower a grade? I ask because it's one aspect that is not clear to me at all, even after years in this hobby. Is it like a tear or colour breaking crease where there are certain grades that are now unatainable due to their existence? Or is it an extra defect that will always bring your coming down an extra point lower, like an additive fault? From what you are saying, it seems additive. Like nomatter how low, having staple rust will bring it lower (unless you feel staple rust would not be ok on a 4.0).

I ask because have some really nice SA books where the main flaw is that the staples are rusty and I have no clue how much that detracts from the grade.

in my experience it crushes it. Now, my experience is limited... 

I had this Avengers 1 for years.  The shop owner told me it was a 5.0. I graded it a 4.0 and would be disappointed with a 3.5.  

I didn't even think to examine the staples. I ended up with a 2.0 and "heavily rusted staples" as the most significant defect. 

They said the staples caused some interior staining which I'm sure dragged the grade down. 

Again,  it's my one real experience and maybe I just missed it. Sorry if the pictures aren't the best. 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by KCOComics
Updated photos

[William-James88]

3 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

in my experience it crushes it. Now, my experience is limited... 

I had this Avengers 1 for years.  The shop owner told me it was a 5.0. I graded it a 4.0 and would be disappointed with a 3.5.  

I didn't even think to examine the staples. I ended up with a 2.0 and "heavily rusted staples" as the most significant defect. 

They said the staples caused some interior staining which I'm sure dragged the grade down. 

Again,  it's my one real experience and maybe I just missed it. Sorry if the pictures aren't the best. 

 

 

Thank you so much for answering. And I see where you are coming from, there is indeed rust migration on the back cover. I will look at my books and check the inside to see if the rust propagates throughout the pages. Also, while its not the grade you wished I still wish to congratulate you on owning a copy of Avengers 1, that is super cool.

[KCOComics]

1 minute ago, William-James88 said:

Thank you so much for answering. And I see where you are coming from, there is indeed rust migration on the back cover. I will look at my books and check the inside to see if the rust propagates throughout the pages. Also, while its not the grade you wished I still wish to congratulate you on owning a copy of Avengers 1, that is super cool.

Thank you! 

I actually traded up recently so I no longer own that one,  but have a 3.5 now.  I traded with my shop who did the CGC submission,  so the rusted staples were fully disclosed. 

It was a learning experience for me and since then I try to pay close attention to the staples.  

[William-James88]

2 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

Thank you! 

I actually traded up recently so I no longer own that one,  but have a 3.5 now.  I traded with my shop who did the CGC submission,  so the rusted staples were fully disclosed. 

It was a learning experience for me and since then I try to pay close attention to the staples.  

I have more questions but I will send you a PM when I have a chance. Thanks for your input!

[allthingskryptonite]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:22 PM, William-James88 said:

Thanks for getting back to me. This makes me wonder something (and everyone can chime in, I'd welcome that), how much does staple rust lower a grade? I ask because it's one aspect that is not clear to me at all, even after years in this hobby. Is it like a tear or colour breaking crease where there are certain grades that are now unatainable due to their existence? Or is it an extra defect that will always bring your coming down an extra point lower, like an additive fault? From what you are saying, it seems additive. Like nomatter how low, having staple rust will bring it lower (unless you feel staple rust would not be ok on a 4.0).

I ask because have some really nice SA books where the main flaw is that the staples are rusty and I have no clue how much that detracts from the grade.

I have some experience with rusty staples as well as cover oxidation, but not via CGC submission, rather with Mycomicshop(MCS).

I once bought a raw 9.0 from eBay, which when I sold through MCS, was graded 6.5. The book had minor rust on staples! 

I bought a raw 7.0 from a boardie here, which when I sold through MCS, was graded 4.5. The book had minor cover oxidation (which was disclosed by the boardie).

What I've understood is that they are notoriously strict when it comes to defects like rusty staples or cover oxidation, and flat out take at least 4 grades off. This would hold for structurally mid to high grade books.

Obviously a book that is structurally 2.5 cannot be graded a 0.5 because it has rusty staples or cover oxidation. That would cause mayhem!

[allthingskryptonite]

Coming back to the book, you may be right that the book looks like a 5.0. 

But rusty staples/rust migration and discoloration on the front cover can bring down the grade to 3.0, as one boardie have correctly pointed here.