Why is a Blue label better than a Purple?

[FFB]

If you want to talk about what the market has indicated, i think that this negative connotation is only a relatively recent trend.

 

Distain for the purple label is a recent trend since it didn't exist before CGC. And the reason for the negative connotation? The vast majority submit their books expecting a blue label. When the comic comes back purple, you can bet they're p1ssed. As a result, the purple label has gained a stigma. Collectors who have bought a comic as unrestored and found out later the comic wasn't virgin will always be annoyed. The same will apply if you go with the blue label idea. Those labels will be shunned as well. Just now they won't be as clearly identified and encourage the less than honest in this hobby. The negative connotation isn't the purple label...it's the fact of the label proving they've been duped. And the purple label also illustrates, CLEARLY if kept in the slab, to others that the comic was restored.

 

The label shouldn't be a barrier for those inclined to buy restored comics...they will be getting what they paid for. There's no valid need to merge the colors together and some huge points for keeping it in my opinion...

 

Jim

 

I totally agree. I dont want restored book in my collection. But all those who dont mind them, now's your chance to stock up on some great comics while their prices are depressed by the stigma attatched to them. The only reason I can think of why you guys want blue labels on them might be that you have already bought a bunch and want to see their value increased under a blue label. Well, maybe not the only reason, but - - if YOU like em, what do you care about what anyone else thinks about them. I suppose many of you bought them as restored years ago and have sufferred a drop in values. If so, tough. Join the club with the rest of us who lost money on overgraded and color touched books. CGCs effects have cut both ways - - we have all been affected havent we?

 

As for the history of restored books, back in the great Sothebys days, Jerry Weist et al PUSHED restoration by having many top books done by Susan. Th etrend then was to buy a VG GA key, spend a grand with Susan and get back a very pretty VF that you could sell for thousands more than you paid for it, The catalogues mentioned proudly that books had been "professionally restored'. Under Sothebys imprimature, Restoration had its "Golden Age"

 

But now its over! Its not the label color!

 

I don't own a single PLOD. There goes your theory.

 

My opposition to the PLOD is that it was a stupid idea from the beginning to create a scarlet letter for restored books and there is no reason to continue the bad practice just because it's been "policy" for five plus years. What is sad is that some of you act like you and everyone else needs the colored label to tell these books apart, even if the big RESTORED label and second restoration score is staring you in the face.

 

And if you down own and don't want to own any restored books, what the heck do you care what CGC does with them? Are you afraid you might actually BUY one of them? I may not have that high of an opinion of the intelligence of some people, but I don't think a single one of you is dumb enough to make that mistake.

[Aman619]

no. CGC made the decision to use diferent colors because many collectors (most?) want no part of restored books. I dont see why they need to change now. Blue means unrestored. Purple means restored. Its not hard and doesnt need to be 'fixed' for clarity. Its clear as a bell.

[Aman619]

"...as clear as the azure sky"

[Aman619]

I wouldnt agree that it was created to become a scarlet letter. It just BECAME one to many people. But its a solid majority of us that see purple and steer clear. One of CGCs main missions was to separate the unrestored book sfrom the restored ones. The purple label is fully consistent with that mission, is it not?

[FFB]

I wouldnt agree that it was created to become a scarlet letter. It just BECAME one to many people. But its a solid majority of us that see purple and steer clear. One of CGCs main missions was to separate the unrestored book sfrom the restored ones. The purple label is fully consistent with that mission, is it not?

 

Who says that was the mission? It was never their mission to convince people to steer clear of restored books. It was their mission to certify books, grade books, detect and note restoration found on books, and then seal them forever away in Barex.

[awe4one]

Who says that was the mission? It was never their mission to convince people to steer clear of restored books. It was their mission to certify books, grade books, detect and note restoration found on books, and then seal them forever away in Barex.

 

And they did their job by giving restored copies their own label color to CLEARLY identify them...

 

And as for your "scarlet letter" comment, it wasn't CGC who put the stigma on the slabs, it was buyers. And an associated stigma will follow any restored blue copies should they go through with the supposed plan for the same reason I outlined in my prior post.

 

Again, I do like the resto number idea though...just on purple labels...

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

but are there any seasoned collectors...maybe over the age of 50 or 60 that could shed some light on how restoration was percieved in the past.

 

I'm not that old, but here's the deal in a nutshell:

 

Restored books used to sell for greater fractions of unrestored, BUT that market no longer exists. CGC has totally changed the playing field, and while a raw NM key in an auction may have sold for Guide to 1.5X Guide, now that same book in a CGC Universal slab sells for 10X Guide.

 

The real difference is that Restored Comics HAVE NOT made the same monumental leaps, and speculators are NOT bumping prices up 5-10X or higher than in the pre-CGC world. Restored books have not dropped in value, they simply have not kept up with the speculator-fueled insanity that is taking place at the unrestored end of the market.

 

So basically, nothing has changed as far as Restored books are concerned, and most keys still sell for the same relative amount as in the past, but CGC unrestored books have the speculators tossing money left and right, and values have spiked to insane levels.

 

Naturally, the restored books are not viewed as "investment class", following the speculator-bred trends in the slabbed coin and sportscard markets. And switching the color of the label is not going to change that.

[Flaming_Telepath]

but are there any seasoned collectors...maybe over the age of 50 or 60 that could shed some light on how restoration was percieved in the past.

 

I'm not that old, but here's the deal in a nutshell:

 

Restored books used to sell for greater fractions of unrestored, BUT that market no longer exists. CGC has totally changed the playing field, and while a raw NM key in an auction may have sold for Guide to 1.5X Guide, now that same book in a CGC Universal slab sells for 10X Guide.

 

The real difference is that Restored Comics HAVE NOT made the same monumental leaps, and speculators are NOT bumping prices up 5-10X or higher than in the pre-CGC world. Restored books have not dropped in value, they simply have not kept up with the speculator-fueled insanity that is taking place at the unrestored end of the market.

 

So basically, nothing has changed as far as Restored books are concerned, and most keys still sell for the same relative amount as in the past, but CGC unrestored books have the speculators tossing money left and right, and values have spiked to insane levels.

 

Naturally, the restored books are not viewed as "investment class", following the speculator-bred trends in the slabbed coin and sportscard markets. And switching the color of the label is not going to change that.

 

RIGHT, WHAT THE [embarrassing lack of self control] HAVE YOU DONE WITH JOE!!!!!!!!!

 

I agreed with all of that....

[Sal]

but are there any seasoned collectors...maybe over the age of 50 or 60 that could shed some light on how restoration was percieved in the past.

 

I'm not that old, but here's the deal in a nutshell:

 

Restored books used to sell for greater fractions of unrestored, BUT that market no longer exists. CGC has totally changed the playing field, and while a raw NM key in an auction may have sold for Guide to 1.5X Guide, now that same book in a CGC Universal slab sells for 10X Guide.

 

The real difference is that Restored Comics HAVE NOT made the same monumental leaps, and speculators are NOT bumping prices up 5-10X or higher than in the pre-CGC world. Restored books have not dropped in value, they simply have not kept up with the speculator-fueled insanity that is taking place at the unrestored end of the market.

 

So basically, nothing has changed as far as Restored books are concerned, and most keys still sell for the same relative amount as in the past, but CGC unrestored books have the speculators tossing money left and right, and values have spiked to insane levels.

 

Naturally, the restored books are not viewed as "investment class", following the speculator-bred trends in the slabbed coin and sportscard markets. And switching the color of the label is not going to change that.

 

if you had numbers to back this up with, i would say you have made an excellent set of points.

 

without numbers - and forgive me if i don't feel good relying on memory, seeing firsthand the condition of my own in this regard - it's merely a highly interesting concept deserving serious investigation

[FFB]

Who says that was the mission? It was never their mission to convince people to steer clear of restored books. It was their mission to certify books, grade books, detect and note restoration found on books, and then seal them forever away in Barex.

 

And they did their job by giving restored copies their own label color to CLEARLY identify them...

 

And as for your "scarlet letter" comment, it wasn't CGC who put the stigma on the slabs, it was buyers. And an associated stigma will follow any restored blue copies should they go through with the supposed plan for the same reason I outlined in my prior post.

 

Again, I do like the resto number idea though...just on purple labels...

 

Jim

 

That's just speculation though, Jim. You don't know that the stigma will persist any more than I know that it'll go away.

 

And CGC is free to change their policy on different color labels for restored books. It isn't like it's a long-standing industry practice. We survived without purple labels for 100 years. We can do so again.

[action1kid]

ffb. im totally with you! restored books with purple label with resto number idea.

[uclapeterg]

but are there any seasoned collectors...maybe over the age of 50 or 60 that could shed some light on how restoration was percieved in the past.

 

I'm not that old, but here's the deal in a nutshell:

 

Restored books used to sell for greater fractions of unrestored, BUT that market no longer exists. CGC has totally changed the playing field, and while a raw NM key in an auction may have sold for Guide to 1.5X Guide, now that same book in a CGC Universal slab sells for 10X Guide.

 

The real difference is that Restored Comics HAVE NOT made the same monumental leaps, and speculators are NOT bumping prices up 5-10X or higher than in the pre-CGC world. Restored books have not dropped in value, they simply have not kept up with the speculator-fueled insanity that is taking place at the unrestored end of the market.

 

So basically, nothing has changed as far as Restored books are concerned, and most keys still sell for the same relative amount as in the past, but CGC unrestored books have the speculators tossing money left and right, and values have spiked to insane levels.

 

Naturally, the restored books are not viewed as "investment class", following the speculator-bred trends in the slabbed coin and sportscard markets. And switching the color of the label is not going to change that.

 

RIGHT, WHAT THE [embarrassing lack of self control] HAVE YOU DONE WITH JOE!!!!!!!!!

 

I agreed with all of that....

 

I feel the same way. Hell has frozen over!

[Flaming_Telepath]

but are there any seasoned collectors...maybe over the age of 50 or 60 that could shed some light on how restoration was percieved in the past.

 

I'm not that old, but here's the deal in a nutshell:

 

Restored books used to sell for greater fractions of unrestored, BUT that market no longer exists. CGC has totally changed the playing field, and while a raw NM key in an auction may have sold for Guide to 1.5X Guide, now that same book in a CGC Universal slab sells for 10X Guide.

 

The real difference is that Restored Comics HAVE NOT made the same monumental leaps, and speculators are NOT bumping prices up 5-10X or higher than in the pre-CGC world. Restored books have not dropped in value, they simply have not kept up with the speculator-fueled insanity that is taking place at the unrestored end of the market.

 

So basically, nothing has changed as far as Restored books are concerned, and most keys still sell for the same relative amount as in the past, but CGC unrestored books have the speculators tossing money left and right, and values have spiked to insane levels.

 

Naturally, the restored books are not viewed as "investment class", following the speculator-bred trends in the slabbed coin and sportscard markets. And switching the color of the label is not going to change that.

 

RIGHT, WHAT THE [embarrassing lack of self control] HAVE YOU DONE WITH JOE!!!!!!!!!

 

I agreed with all of that....

 

I feel the same way. Hell has frozen over!

 

I think it's one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

[FFB]

ffb. im totally with you! restored books with purple label with resto number idea.

 

Then you're not "totally with" me. I want the purple label gone.

[action1kid]

missed that. im not totally with you,correct.

[Aman619]

I wouldnt agree that it was created to become a scarlet letter. It just BECAME one to many people. But its a solid majority of us that see purple and steer clear. One of CGCs main missions was to separate the unrestored book sfrom the restored ones. The purple label is fully consistent with that mission, is it not?

 

Who says that was the mission? It was never their mission to convince people to steer clear of restored books. It was their mission to certify books, grade books, detect and note restoration found on books, and then seal them forever away in Barex.

 

I got that idea from your statement:

My opposition to the PLOD is that it was a stupid idea from the beginning to create a scarlet letter for restored books

 

'''...a stupid idea to create a scarlet letter..." I read that as you saying there was intent to stigmatize, as in a mission (your word). Wasnt the intent of the original 'Scarlet Letter' to cause shunning???

[FFB]

I wouldnt agree that it was created to become a scarlet letter. It just BECAME one to many people. But its a solid majority of us that see purple and steer clear. One of CGCs main missions was to separate the unrestored book sfrom the restored ones. The purple label is fully consistent with that mission, is it not?

 

Who says that was the mission? It was never their mission to convince people to steer clear of restored books. It was their mission to certify books, grade books, detect and note restoration found on books, and then seal them forever away in Barex.

 

I got that idea from your statement:

My opposition to the PLOD is that it was a stupid idea from the beginning to create a scarlet letter for restored books

 

'''...a stupid idea to create a scarlet letter..." I read that as you saying there was intent to stigmatize, as in a mission (your word). Wasnt the intent of the original 'Scarlet Letter' to cause shunning???

 

No, the idea was to make restored books easy to differentiate from unrestored books. There is more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes, so it isn't like they HAD to use the purple label. They chose to, and now we've seen what are apparently unintended consequences where it appears that CGC is making value judgments about the desirability of books by not just noting restoration on the label in a conspicuous manner, but also by using a different color label. Whether you agree or not that the purple label causes additional stigma beyond the mere presence of restoration, it is indisputable that a significant part of the market does agree. CGC's plan to use one color label and just make the restoration disclosure larger and more visible is a good step toward making sure that any stigma on these books is the result of the restoration and not because of the label.

[sborock]

I will be bringing some of the proposed changes to the Forum dinner Sat and the forum folks there can give you all more details...........

[divad]

I think if originally CGC had chosen a black label for restored books, then there would be no stigma at all . . . as everyone knows that anything dressed in black is COOL

 

[sfilosa]

I will agree that the Purple Label has a stigma.

 

The problem is there is no difference between RESTORATION and CONSERVATION. CGC does a nice job of spelling out what has been done to the book, but should a book with a TEAR SEAL really be lumped in with a book that has a small color touch and pieces replaces (and maybe even minor trimming). Yes, I haver seen that amount of restoration get a Slight Professional Restoration notation.

 

Say both books are Restored CGC 9.0.

 

Without the tear seal the first book might STILL have been a CGC 9.0 while the second book could easily be only a CGC 7.0.

 

Yet they both get PURPLE LABELS and SLIGHT PROFESSIONAL RESTORATION and have a stigma attached to them.