They're Still Out There! 22 22

[Aman619]

Comics better than stocks?  I’ve owned plenty of comics that have tripled in value.  But that over 30 years.  Not a great return!  Yes the BEST stuff has done better than the S&P... but the best 10 stocks have appreciated way more than the best 10 comics have, even Tec 27 etc.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

1 hour ago, Aman619 said:

Comics better than stocks?  I’ve owned plenty of comics that have tripled in value.  But that over 30 years.  Not a great return!  Yes the BEST stuff has done better than the S&P... but the best 10 stocks have appreciated way more than the best 10 comics have, even Tec 27 etc.

True confessions, for you and me both.

 

 But it’s still fun 

Edited June 2, 2021 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[MattTheDuck]

I don't personally see/buy comics as an investment, but the primary difference in my mind (leaving returns aside for the moment) is liquidity.  If I really need a lot of money in an emergency, it's no more than 3 days away, and probably less, from my brokerage account.  If I have to sell a $10,000 comic, that could take some time (unless I want to panic-sell a $25,000 comic for $10,000).

That is one area where stocks had a huge advantage over comics in years past.  Comics have closed that gap significantly, as sellers have many more avenues to access willing buyers than they did, say, 40 years ago when you might have been stuck selling to an LCS for a fraction of current value.  The timeline isn't completely clear to me, but the Promise Collection of more than 5000 books is going to bring top dollar to the inheritors, and it's going to do it relatively tout d'suite compared to the past.

[VintageComics]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:39 AM, szav said:

From the first paragraph from the OPG Grading Definitions, guidelines they purportedly follow: "When grading a comic book, common sense must be employed.  The overall eye appeal and beauty of the comic book must be taken into account along with the technical flaws to arrive at the appropriate grade."

I would argue that common sense was not employed in grading this particular book (or historically other books with similar stains).  In an ideal world CGC  might have taken a hint from the market place years ago and seen that high grade books given passes like this on not so subtle shadowing were realizing prices of books a few grades lower (as this one probably will) and adjusted their grading standards accordingly.  At this point the cat is pretty far out of the bag and it's well known this defect frequently gets a pass, and it seems unlikely to change, so it just kinda is what it is. 

People can parrot "buy the book not the grade" all they want, but ideally grade should be ball park reflective of value.  Giving passes on shadows like this is one of my few major disagreements with CGCs grading standards and I think the market generally agrees with me.

My guess is that the book has high grade, NM structure but those shadows wouldn't be allowed in NM grade range so they went as high as they could without putting the book in the NM range.

Personally, I wouldn't grade the book an 8.5 but what do I know?

[Tri-Color Brian]

OK, I'm going to rephrase my statement about stocks.  If you are an "Older than Dirt" collector like me who spent next to nothing on your GA classic cover comics, then they have far out performed the stock market relative to cost.  But, if you are a common issue collector, or a collector of common Bronze or Copper, or you paid too much...then maybe not... 

 

[Professor K]

10 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

True confessions, for you and me both.

 

 But it’s still fun 

Montgomery Clift in I Confess............directed by Hitchcock. 

[Funnybooks]

8 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

Montgomery Clift in I Confess............directed by Hitchcock. 

Just rewatched  A Place in the Sun this past weekend. Great performance by Montgomery.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Funnybooks

[namisgr]

10 hours ago, MattTheDuck said:

I don't personally see/buy comics as an investment, but the primary difference in my mind (leaving returns aside for the moment) is liquidity. 

Another enormous difference is scale.  If you're on the older side, nearing retirement, and have more assets than ever before, it's far easier to invest in scale in stocks, bonds, and hard non-comic book assets than it is in comic books, and less risky and volatile as well. The current market capitalization of all US stocks is over $40 trillion.

Edited June 2, 2021 by namisgr

[Badger]

17 hours ago, Tri-ColorBrian said:

Comics are probably a better investment than stocks. 

I've done a hell of a lot better in comics than in stocks.

[MattTheDuck]

1 hour ago, namisgr said:

Another enormous difference is scale.  If you're on the older side, nearing retirement, and have more assets than ever before, it's far easier to invest in scale in stocks, bonds, and hard non-comic book assets than it is in comic books, and less risky and volatile as well. The current market capitalization of all US stocks is over $40 trillion.

Definitely.  If you have $3.2 million to invest, it's a lot easier/quicker to buy 26,000 shares of AAPL this afternoon than an Action Comics #1.

[Mmehdy]

18 hours ago, Tri-ColorBrian said:

Comics are probably a better investment than stocks. 

Where there is  two definite sides to this issue. The advantage of a GA/SA comic book, is that it is a tangible assets that exits vs a stock certificate in cyber land. So, while the stock can go down to 0, you can read and have a real asset.The stock market is the ultimate Monday morning quarterback and it always look" easy" to say, I should of bought 500 shares of Amazon at 100 bucks each. I could of, would of , and should of...but real difference is it is very very difficult to  know how to purchase and hold Amazon for 20 years. It is much easier to make that decision to buy an Action 1 or Cap 1 of AF15 or Church or SF books. Stocks are easier to sell in an instant thus harder to hand on too when the market trade winds go up and down. Yes, you say the average SP returns are greater overall....but who owns, and holds that over 30 year period...very very few if any. It is in fact just a statistic not a reality that few of any people really get that benefit. 

 One reality for real and sure is Action 1, FF1, Allentown GA books in terms of growth, stability and increased desirability over time..... My advice is stick with what you know and do not get greedy to 5% or 50% more when you are doing a real crapshoot in the stock. market when you are a little fish hoping to catch the whale institutional investors and hedge funds wave. The hedge funds are miles ahead of the average investor and even they do not get it right some times. Comics are 100% more stable, more investment recognizable for the purchaser, and tangible that stocks will ever be.

I would say this, comics and stocks are DIFFERENT investments all together , like apple and orange...neither is better but to  me as a TCBC GA/SA  comic books are a heck of lot safer and cooler to own.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Mmehdy

[Tri-Color Brian]

I have to confess, I have never owned "real" stock listed on the exchange.  Never had an interest.  My interest was comics, and I bought what I wanted.  I'm just happy that a lot of my comics have performed well.  Now the problem is letting some of them go...

 

[Robot Man]

I have always been a keeper. I bought solid stocks and invested my 401K and IRA in blue chip stock. And I have held on to it. I did not take dividends but instead reinvested it into more stock. I am just not a gambler. It has paid off well for me and I now have a very comfortable retirement. 

The other key to this is to be careful what I spend my money on. I paid off all my debt and owe nothing than a small morgage. I can now take some vacations, help my kids and live a comfortable life.

As far as collecting goes, I have always collected what I like and never paid more than I felt comfortable paying. It has always been a self supporting hobby. I sell stuff to pay for what I buy. Never took money out of our household account unless I could pay it back quickly. 

I have sold comics and collectibles on occasion to buy my first house, other real estate and put my kids through school. I have also sold stuff to buy a half a dozen vintage electric guitars, a couple vintage motorcycles and a vintage truck. All of which I could easily sell if need be. 

I really have more than enough “stuff” than I really need. I can’t for the life of me, think that going into debt to buy comics or other stuff at today’s prices is a very smart idea. 

I will most likely, like the vast number of collectors, be one of those kids looking through the candy store window in amazement at the “Promise Collection”. But you never know. With 5K books, there is bound to be a little low hanging fruit...

 

 

[Robot Man]

6 minutes ago, Tri-ColorBrian said:

I have to confess, I have never owned "real" stock listed on the exchange.  Never had an interest.  My interest was comics, and I bought what I wanted.  I'm just happy that a lot of my comics have performed well.  Now the problem is letting some of them go...

 

It’s not really that hard Brian. Sell stuff you are not really emotional about. Stuff you can live without and not regret. Keep the stuff you really love and can never replace.

Most important, do it for the right reason. Not just because it’s worth a lot.  Pay off debt, buy a new vehicle you need or want, take a vacation that you have always wanted to take. Help others. Reasons you won’t regret down the road. 

We are fortunate that we bought what we loved for pennies on today’s dollar. 

[Tri-Color Brian]

16 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

It’s not really that hard Brian. Sell stuff you are not really emotional about. Stuff you can live without and not regret. Keep the stuff you really love and can never replace.

 

Maybe I should have a Pre-Promise Collection sale on the boards, and sell some books the poorer people here can actually afford...

[VintageComics]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:24 PM, comicdonna said:

Heritage  scans have been drastically amped up these days.  This is the same book, and both scans are from Heritage. 

I don't think it's intentional. Scanner technology has changed a lot in 20 years.

In fact, it's nearly impossible to make a scanned book look exactly like it does in real life. Most scanners exaggerate something about the book that's being scanned.

[Mmehdy]

1 hour ago, Robot Man said:

I have always been a keeper. I bought solid stocks and invested my 401K and IRA in blue chip stock. And I have held on to it. I did not take dividends but instead reinvested it into more stock. I am just not a gambler. It has paid off well for me and I now have a very comfortable retirement. 

The other key to this is to be careful what I spend my money on. I paid off all my debt and owe nothing than a small morgage. I can now take some vacations, help my kids and live a comfortable life.

As far as collecting goes, I have always collected what I like and never paid more than I felt comfortable paying. It has always been a self supporting hobby. I sell stuff to pay for what I buy. Never took money out of our household account unless I could pay it back quickly. 

I have sold comics and collectibles on occasion to buy my first house, other real estate and put my kids through school. I have also sold stuff to buy a half a dozen vintage electric guitars, a couple vintage motorcycles and a vintage truck. All of which I could easily sell if need be. 

I really have more than enough “stuff” than I really need. I can’t for the life of me, think that going into debt to buy comics or other stuff at today’s prices is a very smart idea. 

I will most likely, like the vast number of collectors, be one of those kids looking through the candy store window in amazement at the “Promise Collection”. But you never know. With 5K books, there is bound to be a little low hanging fruit...

 

 

I think your approach to buying into the "promise" collection is both safe and sane. "Wait and see' is what a number of collectors are gonna do and if this collection was say 1500 books the chances of you getting a few to slip thru the cracks would have been greatly reduced. We are, according to ha.com, over 5000 OO GA comic books coming on the market over 18 months. For those of you who are patient, rewards could very well become reality...lets see, 

[Tri-Color Brian]

4 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I don't think it's intentional. Scanner technology has changed a lot in 20 years.

In fact, it's nearly impossible to make a scanned book look exactly like it does in real life. Most scanners exaggerate something about the book that's being scanned.

My scanner is about 15 years old.  It has the capability to adjust the image, but still cannot duplicate "candy apple red" color.  It also has a hard time with graduated colors that blend into one another.  It drives me nuts.  Maybe I need to shop for a newer scanner.    However, I still don't see how Heritage got this scan for the Mile High copy.  I owned that book once, and it looked like the 2nd image...They must have had a real bad scanner...

[VintageComics]

Just now, Tri-ColorBrian said:

My scanner is about 15 years old.  It has the capability to adjust the image, but still cannot duplicate "candy apple red" color.  It also has a hard time with graduated colors that blend into one another.  It drives me nuts.  Maybe I need to shop for a newer scanner.    However, I still don't see how Heritage got this scan for the Mile High copy.  I owned that book once, and it looked like the 2nd image...They must have had a real bad scanner...

I think the main problem with scanners is that the CGC holder lifts the book OFF the surface of the glass and this prevents a lot of quality from transferring digitally.

Books scan differently when they are raw or through just a Mylar than through a CGC slab, which lifts the book a few millimetres from the scanner glass.

[Tri-Color Brian]

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

I think the main problem with scanners is that the CGC holder lifts the book OFF the surface of the glass and this prevents a lot of quality from transferring digitally.

Books scan differently when they are raw or through just a Mylar than through a CGC slab, which lifts the book a few millimetres from the scanner glass.

True, but a lot of the problem is the person doing the scan and not knowing how to adjust the color or DPI to duplicate the book inside the holder.  I think that's what happened with that mile high Gangbusters.  I have scanned several books thru CGC holders and always gotten an accurate representation.  And if my scanner couldn't do it, then Photoshop did...except for those dang reds...