They're Still Out There! 22 22

[sfcityduck]

37 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

 

 That is the point here, 1 copy of over 5000  Pedigreed OO GA comic books cannot be duplicated ever again.  ...  Ha said  it right, not in the last 25 years or probably ever again will a true OO over 5000 top graded GA comic book collection will ever surface.

 

Except we all know of a collection which will be at least 2,000+ pedigree prime early GA comics which is yet to come to market (and the collection could contain over 5,000 such books).

Edited June 4, 2021 by sfcityduck

[lou_fine]

27 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

BUT, there are many, many more SA collections to be discovered or have yet to come to market looking at the future to knock off or reduce in the census your X-Men #1 at 9.6...much risker at $750 that your books will be reduced down the CGC ladder of top existing copy. Buyer Beware at this time, in the CGC SA comic book world

Not only SA, but just take a look at some of the BA keys like GSXM 1 that are available with over 200 already in CGC 9.8 and over 10K slabbed in total already.  

And yet in today's Facebook and FOMO like marketplace, it seems like CGC 9.8 graded copies of GSXM 1 and XM 94 combined (> $120K) would be good enough to give you a good shot at the Promise Copy of either All-American 61 or Phantom Lady 17.  Needless to say, if I was willing to spend that kind of money on comic book(s), I definitely know which direction my money and your money would be heading.  

 

[lou_fine]

1 minute ago, sfcityduck said:

Except we all know of a collection which will be at least 2,000+ pedigree prime early GA comics which is yet to come to market.

To which pedigree collection would you be referring to here, as early GA is definitely something that I would be much more interested in as opposed to late GA.   

[sfcityduck]

33 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

To which pedigree collection would you be referring to here, as early GA is definitely something that I would be much more interested in as opposed to late GA.   

The "WTG" (likely "W.T. Gilchrest") collection of OO books, which includes:

And many more.  If you haven't guessed by now, Bangzoom's extensive holdings of books he bought from a variety of OOs include some very large batches, and he stated he knows which books came from whom (and has shared some of initials and last names of the OOs) so they will qualify as pedigrees if he wants.  Some of his books that didn't make it onto the boards are pictured in books, and those comics are even more stunning in the photos than the scans on the board reflect.

Worth noting for those who doubt that BZ would be able to identify which comics came from where, many have the following "pedigree marking" which nails down the batch:  Tback cover of many of the comics is the rubber stamped identification of the store where they were originally sold Campbell Bros, 18th & C Sts. NE, Cigars & Tobacco, Stationery & Newspapers

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, Ugly Baby said:

Wouldn't the "bought from a variety of OOs" part disqualify it from being a pedigree?

BZ has stated that the most of the best books came from the same 2,000+ book OO lot and he can identify all of those books (probably due to how he stores the books and it does not hurt that many have a stamp on the back).  Those books have more than enough mega-keys to qualify for pedigree status.  We're talking Superman 1, D27, AA 16, All-Star 3 and 8, Adventure 40, Planet 1, Pep 1 and 22, numerous Centaurs, Timely's, etc. which have been pictured on this site (the big mystery is whether he has an Action 1).  But, that's not the only grouping of OO comics he has.  He once threw out four or five names of OO groupings he can still identify.  There is no reason to doubt what BZ said.  He was ahead of his time as a collector, buying comics starting in the early 60s through ads that got him to OO collections.  I am not mentioning his name because he has made it clear he values his privacy and he had some health problems a while back, but his identity is known to a number of posters on this board including guys posting on this thread.

[linmoth]

Certainly was a thrill to watch that thread unfold. I know he is passionate about his books but I hope that he does entertain the thought of selling them someday in his lifetime. It would be terrible if something happened to those gems!

[sfcityduck]

6 minutes ago, linmoth said:

Certainly was a thrill to watch that thread unfold. I know he is passionate about his books but I hope that he does entertain the thought of selling them someday in his lifetime. It would be terrible if something happened to those gems!

Perhaps he has heirs who are into comics also who will love the books as much as he has.  I'm not pushing anyone to sell.  The only point I'm trying to make is simply this:  There are still OO collections out there.  Some no longer reside with the OO.  Some are held by collectors that bought the OOs collection in toto.  There is no reason that such OO collections could not be submitted to CGC and get pedigree status.  We've just seen it happen with the Chinatown pedigree - 1,300 books purchased by a collector/dealer from an OO in 1997 and only given pedigree status 24 years later.  BZ has at least one such OO pedigree quality group of books which has not been submitted to CGC, and maybe more.  The Dentist also has such a group of OO pedigree quality books which have not been submitted to CGC, and who knows whether they will ever be sold, but they are out there.  What else lurks in the collections of the guys who are now in their late 60s and older who were fortunate enough to start collecting when GA comics were cheap and plentiful?  I think we'll see some surprises come to light because a lot of those guys are pretty secretive about their holdings. 

[batman_fan]

Remember when the Church collection was the last OO GA collection we would ever see and then we got the Billy Wright, Atlantic City, Promise, etc.  The number of OO GA collections we will see is impossible to predict.  Will one that dwarfs the Church collection show up?  Who really knows, I suspect low probability but not zero for sure (Promise collection is clear evidence of that) and I will say with 1000% certainty there will be many dozens of OO GA collections that come to market over the years.  Total number of books in each one will likely be significantly less than the Promise collection but they will come to the market.

[buttock]

21 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

Remember when the Church collection was the last OO GA collection we would ever see and then we got the Billy Wright, Atlantic City, Promise, etc.  The number of OO GA collections we will see is impossible to predict.  Will one that dwarfs the Church collection show up?  Who really knows, I suspect low probability but not zero for sure (Promise collection is clear evidence of that) and I will say with 1000% certainty there will be many dozens of OO GA collections that come to market over the years.  Total number of books in each one will likely be significantly less than the Promise collection but they will come to the market.

I've picked from 3 OO collections of very HG books in just the last year.  

[Robot Man]

3 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Perhaps he has heirs who are into comics also who will love the books as much as he has.  I'm not pushing anyone to sell.  The only point I'm trying to make is simply this:  There are still OO collections out there.  Some no longer reside with the OO.  Some are held by collectors that bought the OOs collection in toto.  There is no reason that such OO collections could not be submitted to CGC and get pedigree status.  We've just seen it happen with the Chinatown pedigree - 1,300 books purchased by a collector/dealer from an OO in 1997 and only given pedigree status 24 years later.  BZ has at least one such OO pedigree quality group of books which has not been submitted to CGC, and maybe more.  The Dentist also has such a group of OO pedigree quality books which have not been submitted to CGC, and who knows whether they will ever be sold, but they are out there.  What else lurks in the collections of the guys who are now in their late 60s and older who were fortunate enough to start collecting when GA comics were cheap and plentiful?  I think we'll see some surprises come to light because a lot of those guys are pretty secretive about their holdings. 

I know an older local guy (early 80’s) that I met many years ago in a used book store with a jaw dropping collection. 

He started buying off the stands around 1941-1942. He continued until the late 70’s. He would also buy at garage sales, used book stores  and even early mail order. Never been to a con or used the internet. 

He has an Action #1, Bat #1, Cap #1 and tons of others. I remember him showing me a long run of very pretty Marvel Mystery once. 

Lives alone in a house full of paper. Amazing guy. A bit of a hermit and likes it that way. He was a doctor and has plenty of money. He won’t sell any but will occasionally trade me Overstreet for Overstreet (with a little bump for himself). 

I would love to see it all but he is real secretive. Someday, this collection will come to market. 

[Randall Dowling]

3 hours ago, batman_fan said:

Remember when the Church collection was the last OO GA collection we would ever see and then we got the Billy Wright, Atlantic City, Promise, etc.  The number of OO GA collections we will see is impossible to predict.  Will one that dwarfs the Church collection show up?  Who really knows, I suspect low probability but not zero for sure (Promise collection is clear evidence of that) and I will say with 1000% certainty there will be many dozens of OO GA collections that come to market over the years.  Total number of books in each one will likely be significantly less than the Promise collection but they will come to the market.

I agree with all of this.  The aspects that the Church collection books have, that no other collection has had since, are the following:

• He was buying pretty much a copy of every book that came out (the ducks and other notable missings may or may not have been purchased and then disposed of before Chuck got there, I tend to think he didn't buy them but that's just my assumption).
• He kept all of them carefully stored and in "as new" condition, with white pages and fresh looking covers (for the most part)
• He started doing the first 2 things before the advent of superheroes and the explosion of the golden age of comics and thus had pretty much all major keys in the collection (along with every other issue that followed).
• He did this for over 10 years, again during the most important period of comics (likely longer although the provenance of some of the later books suggests they may have been purchased as a group, secondhand).

No other collection that's surfaced has anywhere near 18,000 GA books in it.  Don't get me wrong, 5,000 is a lot of comics.  But it's less than a third of the Church collection.  And there aren't highest graded copies of AC1, Tec27, etc. (or competitors for highest graded).  None of this takes anything away from the Promise collection.  It's probably just not sensible to compare it to the Church collection.  Apples and oranges.

Could another collection like Edgar Church's exist and yet come to market?  Sure.  But it's incredibly unlikely and, as time goes by, the likelihood continues to go down.  

[Mmehdy]

I looked over each of the 274 Promise books last night online and blow up,  and my prior  700K auction estimate is quite low. My new estimate is 1.24 M for the auction lot of books...

Edited June 4, 2021 by Mmehdy

[D84]

Here's a question: if it's an inherited collection, is it still original owner?

[Mmehdy]

Just now, D84 said:

Here's a question: if it's an inherited collection, is it still original owner?

It should be, the SF collection was from a deceased US solider from WWII and the the collection was divided into 3 lots as 1/3 of the collection was divided by the 3 inheritors and all 3 sold the collection to comics and comics...

[RareHighGrade]

3 hours ago, buttock said:

I've picked from 3 OO collections of very HG books in just the last year.  

Exemplars please?  

[sfcityduck]

27 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

I looked over each of the 274 Promise books last night online and blow up,  and my prior  700K auction estimate is quite low. My new estimate is 1.24 M for the auction lot of books...

Still too low.

[Mmehdy]

Just now, sfcityduck said:

Still too low.

Really..Wow...how far off?

[Robot Man]

274 in the works at 1.24M+ and 4726 to go. That’s going to be quite the pay day for someone...

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, Mmehdy said:

Really..Wow...how far off?

 I would not be shocked to see an average over $10K each (some much higher, some lower).  I think the avg. price per book will exceed the BW despite the absence of the mega-keys.

Speaking of which, am I dreaming or wasn't there a CA 1?  What happened to it.

[sfcityduck]

6 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

274 in the works at 1.24M+ and 4726 to go. That’s going to be quite the pay day for someone...

Total collection is north of $25M I bet ($5K avg. per issue price).  But, average price will decline from the $10K+ I expect for this auction as this is a cherry picked lot based on CGC census status.