They're Still Out There! 22 22

[batman_fan]

There are several books I would like to get in this auction but to be completely honest, there are several pieces of artwork I would rather go after.  

[Sqeggs]

12 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

I have to agree. At that point collecting is an addiction rather than a hobby. There's always another comic book. In fact, there's always another copy of the same comic book, as the purchaser of this comic has indubitably learned by now.

It's NOT an addiction. I tell ya, I can give it up anytime, anytime at all with no problem. It's just that, uh, well, I choose to keep doing it for just a little while, a very short while, a teeny-tiny while longer! 

Be interesting to see how much the Manhunt 12 consignor will lose. I'll guess that he also owns one of the other two copies that have surfaced.

[Funnybooks]

2 hours ago, tth2 said:

All I know is that every time I see the acronym, I suddenly get a craving for frozen yogurt.

Or go shopping for a great 2 for 1 deal

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

1 hour ago, Sqeggs said:

It's NOT an addiction. I tell ya, I can give it up

12 step program much? I’ll reserve a coupla seats for us

[lou_fine]

On 5/28/2021 at 1:36 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

On 5/28/2021 at 1:29 PM, The Lions Den said:

It really is amazing how much the slab can disguise certain flaws. One of challenges of being a Quality Control specialist is being able to match the book to the grade on the label, and there are times where the book will look dramatically better than the assigned grade. I'm sure an entire thread could be devoted to this subject...  

Your comments make me wonder whether my books with CVA stickers were worth the crazy multiples that I paid for them .... 

 

On 5/28/2021 at 1:47 PM, The Lions Den said:

As we used to say: "Don't ever crack them out!" 

Depending upon the Grader's Notes, I would much rather pay less to acquire a book that presents nicely relative to it's assigned lower grade, as compared to paying more for a book that doesn't appear to present as nicely relative to its assigned higher grade.    

Now, after everybody's comments here that the notes don't actually list all of the defects, especially the major hidden ones bringing the actual grade down, probably the wrong strategy to be taking here.  

[lou_fine]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:39 PM, Terry_JSA said:

On 5/28/2021 at 6:59 PM, Aman619 said:

That video is kinda interesting, cause the non bearded guy has been promoting modern books heavily for a few years.  Sure he’s also touted bronze kegs etc, but I’ve never seen him go on about or be interested in Golden Age books...  has he?  If he is a voice for the modern crowd, has the ears of the new guys, perhaps they listen and start getting into GA??

To be fair, this collection is pretty interesting. Tom covering it isn’t a surprise to me, It basically came out of no where and no one expected it. 5000+ GA books in high grade (some probably over graded) but still, it amazes me. I think it’s cool to see him use his platform and talk about this.

Yes, definitely nice to see the younger generation at least talking about some of the GA books, and in particular, with the Promise Collection of book here. 

Although the title of this video is definitely incorrect here (i.e. The Best Comic Book Collection Ever Found) as that tile really belongs to the Church Collection, nothing at all wrong with his subtitle "Historic Golden-Age Collection Discovered". 

Not sure who this Golden Age Guru guy is here, but I found it rather interesting that the #4 book he listed and raved on about was Cap's Weird Tales #74.  I thought if it was a Cap book, they would have gone with a more obvious and popular choice like the Cap 46 with the classic Holocaust cover.  I guess the fact that the Cap 74 was head and shoulds the highest graded copy while the Cap 46 was only the second higheest graded in a very tight field made all the difference in the world.  Personally, if I had the money and deciding between these two books here, I would go for the Cap 46 myself.  

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

 graded copy in the have to agree. At that point collecting is an addiction rather than a hobby. There's always another comic book. In fact, there's always another copy of the same comic book, as the purchaser of this comic has indubitably learned by now.

Not the Manhunt book, as I thought you link was going to take us to this book here:  

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/689571

Sold for something silly like $15K on CC back in 2016 when it was "the only CGC 9.8 graded copy in the entire universe", and definitely nowhere even close now that it has other CGC 9.8 copies out there to keep it company.  

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

16 hours ago, buttock said:

Leveraging debt to pay for comic books is a terrible idea.  

I have to agree. At that point collecting is an addiction rather than a hobby. There's always another comic book. In fact, there's always another copy of the same comic book, as the purchaser of this comic has indubitably learned by now.

 

15 hours ago, Aman619 said:

That’s what I’m implying. Or saying. Pointing out …. Just making the purchase even more expensive . 

Try telling that to the Dentist as I remember talking to Dave back in the day and he told me that after he had graduated from Dental School, the credit card companies must have targeted him as an up and coming spender as he was getting all sorts of CC applications being sent to him.  

According to what he told me, he took advantage of that money being offered to him at the time to acquire many of his early Church purchases.  

Edited May 30, 2021 by lou_fine

[Aman619]

Those were crazy times in banking. Interest rates topped over 10% (was it 15%?). My accountant borrowed 20K and put it in 15 year savings bonds. Interest rates fell soon after, but he paid off the loan and kept earning his 15% for years 

Smart guy..  of course, too bad told me years later. 

Also a very different world in comics. So much more upside buying Church runs then compared to ponying up for Promise copies in 2021.  Unless you believe values will keep rising at same rates of return? 

[lou_fine]

On 5/28/2021 at 1:30 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

On 5/28/2021 at 12:45 PM, LordRahl said:

Oh absolutely. For anyone that has broken free more than a few books, this is pretty common knowledge. The slab hides all kinds of defects.

So do Mylar sleeves. I figured that out back in the 80s by buying books from dealers racks without pulling the books out first. Unfortunately, the type of defects that don't show through a Mylar sleeve also don't show in scans, so I've had similar disappointments buying books online.

Yes, for sure with those beautiful mylar sleeves as they always make the books look so glossy and bright when you look at them.  

Not so much with those cheapo comic sleeve bags they had from the old days back in the 70's and 80's.  Although the good thing is that when you do take the comic book out from them, they still look as beautiful and glossy as if you just took them off the shelves of the LCS some 40+ years ago.  

[lou_fine]

11 minutes ago, Aman619 said:

Those were crazy times in banking. Interest rates topped over 10% (was it 15%?). My accountant borrowed 20K and put it in 15 year savings bonds. Interest rates fell soon after, but he paid off the loan and kept earning his 15% for years 

Definitely a bang up smart move on his part as he must have had his crystal ball all shiny and working at that time.  

I remember buying my first house in 1982 or thereabouts and the mortgage interest rate was at just a tad over 20% and seemingly going up on an almost weekly basis.  My much older brother-in-law who owned quite a few houses by that time told us that we better lock in the rate before it moved further up into the 20's or possibly even into the 30's.  Went against his advice and decided to go with a flexible rate figuring that rates wouldn't go much higher and they didn't, as they dropped on pretty much a continual basis after that.  

[Mmehdy]

1 hour ago, Aman619 said:

Those were crazy times in banking. Interest rates topped over 10% (was it 15%?). My accountant borrowed 20K and put it in 15 year savings bonds. Interest rates fell soon after, but he paid off the loan and kept earning his 15% for years 

Smart guy..  of course, too bad told me years later. 

Also a very different world in comics. So much more upside buying Church runs then compared to ponying up for Promise copies in 2021.  Unless you believe values will keep rising at same rates of return? 

Strange when Church copies hit the market at 3x guide, that is exactly what they said at the time back in 1970's. A number of dealers said you will never get your money back. Over time, based upon my 50+ years of living the GA/SA comic book market, my opinion is the same, when I bought those Church copies at 300% of mint guide, if you can buy and hold, you not will  lose one penny, same here on the promise collection, over time the price you pay on these very high grade pedigree books will appreciate greatly. At the time when you paid 300% of guide there were very few options if you needed a quick resale on the church books. No dealer and very few collectors would bail you out. Today with a worldwide comic book market you have a much better chance to recover your purchase price. Looking back, the Promise books are a much safer buy that the Church's were in the  1970's.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Mmehdy

[Larryw7]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:50 PM, szav said:

It looks like the mono-color background Riddler trapping Batman and Robin in a deadly array of coat hangers has pulled ahead and  is the first Promise book to break 100k.  

 

Tec 142 has a much better cover. 140 isn't very creative. 

[aardvark88]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Yes, definitely nice to see the younger generation at least talking about some of the GA books, and in particular, with the Promise Collection of book here. 

 

Not sure who this Golden Age Guru guy is here,  

Pretty sure the GA Guru is Jeff Itkin (sp?), Overstreet Advisor from Portland, OR area.

[Aman619]

34 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

Strange when Church copies hit the market at 3x guide, that is exactly what they said at the time back in 1970's. A number of dealers said you will never get your money back. Over time, based upon my 50+ years of living the GA/SA comic book market, my opinion is the same, when I bought those Church copies at 300% of mint guide, if you can buy and hold, you not will  lose one penny, same here on the promise collection, over time the price you pay on these very high grade pedigree books will appreciate greatly. At the time when you paid 300 of guide there were very few options if you needed a quick resale on the church books. No dealer and very few collectors would bail you out. Today with a worldwide comic book market you have a much better chance to recover your purchase price. Looking back, the Promise books are a much safer buy that the Church's were in the  1970's

Yes I considered adding all that to my post ... yes the church prices were nosebleed back then. And sure, maybe the gravy train keeps chugging along for all the reasons you state.  But you and I both bought our stuff years ago, so this is academic at best. We aren’t putting skin in the game in 2021.  Past performance is no guarantee of future gains.. I prefer to preach caution to the new whales rather than cheerlead because it does benefit me when they push prices higher and higher.

[Mmehdy]

26 minutes ago, Aman619 said:

Yes I considered adding all that to my post ... yes the church prices were nosebleed back then. And sure, maybe the gravy train keeps chugging along for all the reasons you state.  But you and I both bought our stuff years ago, so this is academic at best. We aren’t putting skin in the game in 2021.  Past performance is no guarantee of future gains.. I prefer to preach caution to the new whales rather than cheerlead because it does benefit me when they push prices higher and higher.

I do not consider it "cheerleading" but expressing my opinion on where the future market lies in terms of price security specifically for this Promise collection. Let me put it a different way, if you are gonna stick you neck out and pay current market prices in 2021 not 1976..do so with choice high grade new pedigree comic books. Aman619 it does not get any better, or safer than this for 2021. I doubt that in the future we will see another 95% ultra high grade OO 5000 + GA comic book collection hit on this market again. We are putting skin in the game, every day as TCBC who chose not sell at "nosebleed" prices when looking back to the 1970's. We are still in the game, you and I every TCBC that maintains a collection  as collector/ investor . We are just limited on the buy side, due to the "good old days  of pricing".  But there are two sides to the collecting fence. "caution" should be replaced by intelligence  and safe and sane financial practices when buying. The Promise collection is as good as it gets in our GA/SA comic book world.

 The "gravy train" is in fact the "reality" train that today more than ever before GA/SA comic books have reached acceptance among the collecting communities such as Fine Art, Rare Coins as something with inherit value and rarity. Basically our GA/SA comic book market has grown up and has been recognized by the "big boys" as a member on the true value investment club It has taken us many years and many roads to go down to get there.. Yes, the negative side effects of the current GA/SA comic book market growth have also contributed to price increases...Savy widget buyers have  entered out GA/SA comic book market looking to turn a quick flip..and we as TCBC have to deal with them.

 Finally. "past performance is no guarantee of future gains" and I respond to you, we as TCBC should be thankful of that outstanding 50 year price history of clear and sustained gains in value and demand and  increased awareness. and acceptance. This is a roadmap to me as to where we have headed in the past, and where  our path will take us in the future. Aman, great post, thank you

Edited May 30, 2021 by Mmehdy
pick

[Aman619]

Let’s just say that I refrain from telling others, go ahead, jump in, waters fine!  It’s always been fine and always will BE fine.  Just as I don’t advocate or predict a crash in comics or other collectibles. Everyone has to assess their actions, do their homework, and make their best decisions.  however, after the year we have seen in all collectibles due to too much money and too much idle time. It does not feel like the right time to go all out competing wildly for these 5000 books. Especially because there are few real mega keys in the Promise collection that will survive any downturn.  You always promote a giddy carefree excitement for the future of the hobby, that’s great!  It reads like cheerleading to me, but sure why not, we love comics collecting and have for decades.  But I’ve always been more cautious.  Even when setting records it was doable because I felt there was enough run up left to come for what I was buying and that they were still cheap given their future prospects..  it just feels too frothy right now. 

[lou_fine]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:02 AM, mstrange said:

On 5/28/2021 at 11:49 PM, lou_fine said:

Any idea if this was just for Suspense 3 only , or were the other early Suspense Comics also missing from the collection as I believe the only ones graded so far has been from either Suspense 5 or 6 and then the later issues after that?  

Collection starts with Suspense #5.

So, looks like that's why we didn't see an increase in the higher end of the Census Population Report for any of the early Suspense Comics. 

Sometimes, you just end up missing out, similar to Pat's Chinatown Collection which started the All-American run with issue #62.  And then sometimes, you just managed to squeak in under the wire as the last issue in the Flash run for the Chinatown Collection was Flash #86.  

It's too bad the promise Collection didn't have any of the earlier Suspense cooks in there as I would have love to see what a HG Suspense 4 or even a Suspense 1 would fetch in today's marketplace.  Especially in terms of the Suspense 4 where the highest graded copy is still only a single CGC 7.5 graded copy (similar to the classic Suspense 8 with 3 copies in CGC 7.5 prior to this Promise Collection copy) since the Church copy has yet to come back into the marketplace after all these long years.  

And for those who thinks that pedigree books can only go up over time, just take a look at the Church copy of Suspense Comics 1.  Sold as a CGC 8.5 graded copy on 3 separate occasions at Heritage, with each succeeding sale going for a lower result.  First time sold in August of 2007 for $9,560 which was then followed by a subsequent sale in November of 2009 for $5,078.75; before finishing up at just under condition guide in November of 2012 at a price point of $4,331.88.    

Without a doubt though, this Church copy of Suspense Comics 1 would finish a whole lot higher in today's red hot marketplace, as evident by the fact that a CGC 5.5 graded copy was able to fetch $6,200 or something like 3.5X condition guide in a CC Event Auction last year in the Spring of 2020. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On 5/29/2021 at 1:08 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

On 5/28/2021 at 11:49 PM, lou_fine said:

Well, I guess the owners of both the Penn and Church copy of Suspense 3 are probably breathing a sigh of relief after hearing this.  

Maybe—I guess it depends who owns them.

Yes, I guess it really depends on the collector as quite a few of the boardies here have clearly stated that they would like to retain that #1 top position.  

Although I would certainly also prefer to retain that top position if it came to a book of mine's, I wouldn't mind too much if the Promise Collection copy came in at the equivalent grade or preferably one tiny notch lower.  After all, I wouldn't really want to be seen as the only fool to pay such a ridiculous record setting price and it would certainly be nice to say that there's an even bigger fool out that that's willing to pay even much more money for a similar copy of the book that you have in your personal collection. 

At least, it'll not only reinforce the original price you had paid to obtain your copy, but also to help push the market upwards on this book with an actual definitive sale after all of these long years (or possibly even decades) while you've been holding it.   

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, szav said:

I'd be curious to know if he thought he was being financially savvy in doing so at the time.  In hindsight it looks like genius, and I don't know the guy at all, but my guess is he just considered the added financing charges as an acceptable added cost to getting the books he desired.  At the time did he expect to get rich off it?  Did he expect or care if he ever got his money back...I'm guessing not.

No idea although I did get the feeling from him that this was an opportunity that he didn't want to pass up, especially since companies were offering him money at the time which enabled him to acquire these books for his personal collection.  

I believe he also felt lucky to have hooked up with a comic book broker who was one of the very few guys to have first right of purchase from Chuck's annual allotment of books that he would release from his Mile High Collection.  Especially since being a relatively new player at the time, he certainly wouldn't have received this treasured privilege from Chuck by then.  

Edited May 31, 2021 by lou_fine