CCS Screening, Graders Notes Indicate Pressable Defects. 0

[EmoJackson]

Received notification that my ASM 300 was graded and will be on its way back to me.  I paid for CCS screening to see if the book could use a pressing to improve grade.  CCS indicated in a email the book is not likely to benefit from a pressing.  Now here comes the sticky part... the graders notes indicate the following.  

Grader Notes:
light finger bends on cover
light spine stress lines to cover
small bend right bottom of back cover
small, light crease left bottom of back cover

I sent an email to CGC, I'm a slightly crushed at the outcome.  

 

[The Lions Den]

7 hours ago, EmoJackson said:

Received notification that my ASM 300 was graded and will be on its way back to me.  I paid for CCS screening to see if the book could use a pressing to improve grade.  CCS indicated in a email the book is not likely to benefit from a pressing.  Now here comes the sticky part... the graders notes indicate the following.  

Grader Notes:
light finger bends on cover
light spine stress lines to cover
small bend right bottom of back cover
small, light crease left bottom of back cover

I sent an email to CGC, I'm a slightly crushed at the outcome.  

 

[EmoJackson]

11 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

My thoughts exactly.  I still have not heard back from CGC...  

[theCapraAegagrus]

It could be that pressing those does not result in a grade bump.

[EmoJackson]

Received word back from CGC about the issue.  This is all they had to say. 

"Thank you for reaching out to us.  I checked with the CGC staff and the CCS staff that works with the pressing of the books.  The book was reviewed by the CCS staff and determined not to be a good pressing candidate.  When the book was looked at as a whole the staff felt even with pressing it would not go up in grade."

I'm completely dissatisfied with their response.  I would be lead to believe that light bends and the small light crease could have been removed by pressing.  Their sample images on the CCS page are more severe than what this book has for notes.  I guess CGC wants me to send it to a presser and then off to CBCS???

[William-James88]

On 4/24/2021 at 2:28 AM, EmoJackson said:

Received notification that my ASM 300 was graded and will be on its way back to me.  I paid for CCS screening to see if the book could use a pressing to improve grade.  CCS indicated in a email the book is not likely to benefit from a pressing.  Now here comes the sticky part... the graders notes indicate the following.  

Grader Notes:
light finger bends on cover
light spine stress lines to cover
small bend right bottom of back cover
small, light crease left bottom of back cover

I sent an email to CGC, I'm a slightly crushed at the outcome.  

 

I don't get the issue. You have spine stress lines on the cover. If CCS found that undoing the other issues still wouldn't make up for your loss from those stress lines (which seem to be by far the biggest issue here), then they offered you the service you asked and did not press it since it would not have improved the grade. 

[William-James88]

4 hours ago, EmoJackson said:

 lead to believe that light bends and the small light crease could have been removed by pressing. 

For crying out loud, that is NOT what you paid for. You paid to ask if a press would improve the grade, not if there were pressable defects. 2 different things. A book torn in half could have pressable defects but pressing it wont improve the grade. And you got your answer.

If you wanted them to press the book, then just pay for pressing. The cost of CCS screening can't be so much less than the cost of pressing itself.  I have no clue why you went for CCS screening on a modern book, it's beyond bonkers. That service is for older books to check if work done on them is worthwhile, since that would cost more than the rejection price. You should have just paid the 10$ or so for pressing, to at least ease your mind.

Edited April 27, 2021 by William-James88

[EmoJackson]

22 hours ago, William-James88 said:

For crying out loud, that is NOT what you paid for. You paid to ask if a press would improve the grade, not if there were pressable defects. 2 different things. A book torn in half could have pressable defects but pressing it wont improve the grade. And you got your answer.

If you wanted them to press the book, then just pay for pressing. The cost of CCS screening can't be so much less than the cost of pressing itself.  I have no clue why you went for CCS screening on a modern book, it's beyond bonkers. That service is for older books to check if work done on them is worthwhile, since that would cost more than the rejection price. You should have just paid the 10$ or so for pressing, to at least ease your mind.

Thank you for your input, your insight is greatly appreciated and has added value.  Have a great day.

[William-James88]

2 hours ago, EmoJackson said:

Thank you for your input, your insight is greatly appreciated and has added value.  Have a great day.

How much was your screening fee?

[justafan]

On 4/26/2021 at 7:09 AM, Angel of Death said:

It could be that pressing those does not result in a grade bump.

Sorry for butting into this convo between you and William-James88 but Angel of Death provided the key here.  There are many reasons why it could have been rejected.  Here are a few to consider:

1. Graders Notes are not always (often never) a true or complete assessment of all the defects on a book.  There may be other defects not listed because they were just too obvious.  It has been clarified on these boards that the notes are an artifact of the grading process and not required by graders to list every defect.  They are primarily used by the graders to state the defects that help contribute to the overall determination of the grade and often omit the more obvious defects that set the upper grade limit.  The act of CGC making the notes available is a courtesy and not a requirement of the grading submission.  There are thousands 9.6 and lower books with "no graders notes" but it doesn't mean they are defect free.

2. Graders Notes language and lexicon uses terms like "light" and "small" liberally with no standard for size or severity.  You simply can't trust that the notes imply anything about the pressability of the defect unless you confirm with your own eyes once you receive the book back. Here's my interpretation from years of comparing grader notes to the books when in hand.

light finger bends on cover  - often these can have hidden color breaks on dark covers when not pressed due to the angle of the finger bend but then reveal the color break when pressed.  One way to see is if you shine a light on them at a shallow angle and rotate it around(do a 360 with an LED light).  If you see any color break that will possibly appear once pressed.
light spine stress lines to cover - again, they sometimes state "that breaks color" or "multiple" but I've got some 9.0-9.4 and even some 9.6 slabs that just says "light spine stress" as the only grader notes and indeed it does have 1 or 2 spine ticks that barely break color but often having multiples of them is the difference between a 9.2 and 9.6 or higher.  "light spine stress lines" also doesn't indicate the size or severity of the spine stress.
small bend right bottom of back cover - this one could be the most likely pressable but I've also recently seen this same text refer to a color breaking tiny corner crunch or corner bend.  If that bend doesn't break color but the damage propagates through the cover to interior pages and does break color on those interior pages, that will affect the grade as well.
small, light crease left bottom of back cover - creases usually indicate a sharp plastic deformation of the cover fibers and ink which often leaves a light color break on dark covers.  Even on white covers, the crease won't truly disappear but it can be made less noticeable with a press. 

3. ASM 300 has a notoriously unforgiving black back cover that often suffers from things that don't get put into graders notes. Anything from scuffs, to barely visible scratches, the severity of the production rippling defect on that back cover, or overall cover wear.

4. CCS is a totally different department than the CGC graders making notes while grading. Grading is subjective and can differ from person to person even within CGC's own grading room.  The person evaluating the defects in CCS prescreen may have been doing so much more harshly than the person in the grading room and vice versa.  Even if the lighting is different, the person in the pre-screen could have caught something that the grader didn't see.

5. CGC graders and their skills are always in flux and new hires are coming on board.  I have books from periods of lax and strict grading that bares this out with 9.8's showing multiple color break spine ticks or stains on the back cover and 9.4's that are flawless except for 1 spin tick that I've resubbed and received a higher grade at a later time.

I may also be lacking some context such as what was the assigned grade before submitting for pressing screening?  How was the books submitted?  Was it already a graded ASM 300 8.5-9.2 when you submitted it or did you have a specific minimum pre-screen grade that you were hoping to achieve?  while some of those defects may be pressable, not all of them may be and even if they are, there may have been others that CCS thought would hold it back from the desired grade bump.  I think the only thing you can really be upset about is that CCS didn't really cite any reasons or documentation on what defects they felt would hold it back.  They usually do this for walk-throughs or books submitted for restoration removal so this may not be something they do regularly for thousands of regular pre-screens.  My advice would be to reassess the book with your own eyes and a bright LED light,once it is back in your hands and if a follow up call to CCS doesn't bring forth more info, you can always crack it back out look through the interior of the book to check for tears, rips, writing, or other defects hidden from the outside and if none are found, you can send it over to Joey or any of the other pro pressers for a 2nd opinion or just request a press and resub it.

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by justafan
clarification

[EmoJackson]

Thank you for the excellent reply Justafan, I really appreciate it.  I totally agree that the graders experience and repeatability for grading is always in flux as I too have several books that shocked me when I received them back from CGC.  Fingerprinted books, significant ink rub, and other issues coming back at 9.8 are always surprising.  I'm going to wait for the book to arrive and evaluate to see if sending it out for a cleaning and pressing service would be of any benefit.  This was my first time using the "CCS Prescreen" and will be the last, from here out I will either be submitting my books through a cleaner/presser or using CCS.  

Again, thank you so much for the explanation and assistance.  

I'll be sending you a PM shortly.

[William-James88]

8 hours ago, EmoJackson said:

This was my first time using the "CCS Prescreen" and will be the last

How much did they charge you for rejection fee? 

[William-James88]