Image Comics Will Not Work With Warren Ellis Until He Has Made Amends 2 2

[shadroch]

28 minutes ago, K.P.D. said:

You are missing out. He's right up there with (or better than) Alan Moore, Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison.

Who?

[kav]

9 hours ago, Spawnfreak said:

George Burns, when asked why he surrounded himself with beautiful young women, replied," I liked young women all my life, and my life isn't over yet", and to my knowledge, was never accused of anything untoward. So, watch it with the old men S#$%!

George Burns wasnt creepy about it.  It was more of a schtick than slobbering lust.

Edited June 26, 2021 by kav

[Kevin76]

if I was Warren, I'd tell Image to go F themselves.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don't buy the malarkey. Almost every relationship ends with, "you were emotionally abusive!" Sorry that I didn't want to own a dog with you, Sally...

[Cat]

2 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I don't buy the malarkey. Almost every relationship ends with, "you were emotionally abusive!" Sorry that I didn't want to own a dog with you, Sally...

He was targeting young female fans, doing emotionally abusive things to them, manipulating them for his sexual pleasure, and then, when he'd gotten that, just throw them away. 

Very different scenario to a relationship on equal terms that just doesn't work out for whatever reason. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, Mecha_Fantastic said:

He was targeting young female fans, doing emotionally abusive things to them, manipulating them for his sexual pleasure, and then, when he'd gotten that, just throw them away. 

Very different scenario to a relationship on equal terms that just doesn't work out for whatever reason. 

That's my ideal Saturday night.

[Cat]

2 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

That's my ideal Saturday night.

Yes. Now imagine it with other people involved. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

3 minutes ago, Mecha_Fantastic said:

Yes. Now imagine it with other people involved. 

I've read through some of these testimonials. It's interesting how retrospective people get when they lose their high.

[Cat]

3 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I've read through some of these testimonials. It's interesting how retrospective people get when they lose their high.

All is say to that is power imbalances and oxytocin are a powerful combination, I imagine. Other than that, not a thing I can really comment on. Your opinion is your opinion, mate, and we've basically said the same thing, anyway. 

[kav]

57 minutes ago, Mecha_Fantastic said:

He was targeting young female fans, doing emotionally abusive things to them, manipulating them for his sexual pleasure, and then, when he'd gotten that, just throw them away. 

Very different scenario to a relationship on equal terms that just doesn't work out for whatever reason. 

Do you have some links?  All I ever read was he flirted with them.

[Prince Namor]

Reading Twitter and online (and here now), the ComicsGate crowd is obviously triggered. They may need a Frank T.J. Mackey seminar to make themselves feel right again.

[Prince Namor]

They made a whole website:

https://www.somanyofus.com

[Prince Namor]

 I know there are some lawyers here - maybe, many have long left this forum - but I wonder if there are any EEOC lawyers here? Was wondering: If Ellis used 'work' as a condition of manipulation to receive sexual favors, I wonder if that could fall under those laws. 

[William-James88]

On 6/26/2021 at 1:47 AM, kav said:

From what I remember and dont quote me on this maybe others can clarify it was more perceived creepy flirtation than actual criminal acts.

If it was criminal acts, the police would be involved. 

Anyways, it's still icky, and it really sours my experience of watching the Castlevania series whenever his name appears on the title. (sidebar, it's also super dumb for him to recieve prominant "creator" status on a show based on a video game (which itself has Dracula s the antagonist), he didn't create Castlevania)

[theCapraAegagrus]

51 minutes ago, kav said:

Do you have some links?  All I ever read was he flirted with them.

Most of it is, "we were intimate and then we weren't" and, "I enjoyed my experience until I learned that others went through the same thing".

It's the same thing as being offended after she says you're the biggest but then tells you the truth after you break up.

Edited June 28, 2021 by theCapraAegagrus

[Prince Namor]

35 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

If it was criminal acts, the police would be involved. 

Not if they didn't press charges. They could though.

Using a position of power and influence to trick people into sex isn't any less of an actionable offense as using a position of power and influence to trick people into buying something that isn't what it was sold as. Because women are involved though, Comics Gate sees it as different. 

[Cat]

1 hour ago, kav said:

Do you have some links?  All I ever read was he flirted with them.

Besides @Prince Namor's link what I was paraphrasing came from someone in the debacle, allegedly Ellis. 

It should also be noted that the women involved also stressed that nothing illegal was done to them, so there's definitely nothing criminal to pursue, just hurt feelings and personal trauma, which is arguably much worse. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Mecha_Fantastic
Correction Of Facts

[Qalyar]

On 6/25/2021 at 7:35 PM, wisbyron said:

I do not think Image Comics deserves any credit for making this adjustment, not really a decision. Sixty two statements are sixty two too many. I've long heard people whine about "separating the artist from the art" but I think that's selfish indulgence not really considering empathy for victims. I enjoyed some of Gary Glitter's glam rock stompers but guess what- I can't listen to them anymore. Ellis can't make amends and anything he does would seem forced in order to return to the comics industry.

I'm a believer in separating the artist from the art to some extent, especially when the art in question isn't a one-man production. At the extreme, we can't -- and shouldn't -- just memory-hole everything Harvey Weinstein was involved with, because that would give short shrift to the contributions of hundreds, if not thousands, of writers, actors, editors, and supporting crew. We've got nine issues of Fell, and yeah, Ellis's behavior taints his work to some degree. But it's not fair to Ben Templesmith to sandbag it completely.

However. Publishing new material, after the revelations are, erm, revealed? That's an entirely different story. Image is in the right here, whether that was done out of altruism or just the realization that Ellis's responses (and non-responses) have made his wrongdoing even more radioactive than it could have been. It should be a bright-line rule: If you can't treat others with some basic standard of human respect, you don't get to contribute your creative voice to further projects. It may be the only real way to discourage this sort of thing.

[theCapraAegagrus]

6 minutes ago, Qalyar said:

If you can't treat others with some basic standard of human respect, you don't get to contribute your creative voice to further projects.

I hate to break it to you, but respect is nearly non-existent when it comes to love/sex affairs. Image can do whatever they want, but to pretend that there's a moral high ground simply reminds me that "all is fair in love and war".

Edited June 28, 2021 by theCapraAegagrus

[Qalyar]

5 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I hate to break it to you, but respect is nearly non-existent when it comes to love/sex affairs. Image can do whatever they want, but to pretend that there's a moral high ground simply reminds me that "all is fair in love and war".

All is not fair in love and war. Especially when one of the participants is operating from a position of power and privilege. That's sort of the point. but also, seriously, the Guardian's article on the situation is as good as any. Ellis played his fame for sexual favors, possibly even bargaining mentorship for sex, while deceiving partners into the status -- and number -- of his active sexual relationships. That at one point numbered over a dozen, simultaneously.

There's probably nothing illegal about any of that. People are allowed to be skeevy, manipulative jerks. But the industry, in turn, is allowed to declare that people revealed as skeevy,  manipulative jerks ought to have a harder time continuing to publish product.