What will happen to all these trimmed books?

[The Black Hand ®]

I think that designating "The Nicholas Cage Collection" was a travesty. Why do it? It wasn't a pedigree, it wasn't an original owner collection, Cage contributed nothing to comics from a practical or historic standpoint,it was a cheap money making gimmick to trade off of celebrity plain and simple and I found it insulting and unnecessary. Nothing against Cage, he's a fine actor, but he's no Stan Lee.

[toro]

I think that designating "The Nicholas Cage Collection" was a travesty. Why do it? It wasn't a pedigree, it wasn't an original owner collection, Cage contributed nothing to comics from a practical or historic standpoint,it was a cheap money making gimmick to trade off of celebrity plain and simple and I found it insulting and unnecessary. Nothing against Cage, he's a fine actor, but he's no Stan Lee.

So is the Dallas Stephen Collection and Joe and Nandio(or wharever the name is)Collection.

[Zanarkand]

Once all these trimmed books have been identified and refunds given what do you all think will happen to the books themselves? Will they be destroyed, like counterfeit money so that they will never manage to find their way back into circulation or will the they be cracked out of their slabs and sold raw? Or will Heritage get together with CGC in a few years and auction them off as "The Notorious Jason Ewert Collection" a wacky new pedigree designation. They did with Nicholas Cage, that famous comic book.... wait, what did he have to do with comic book creation? I forget, anyway what do you think? I'm trying to lighten up about this whole thing.

 

I think they'll likely end up back in circulation eventually. Collectors will just have to treat this like the pressing thing - if pressing really really bothers you, don't buy flat books, even if slabbed. If trimming really really bothers you, don't buy books with unnaturally straight edges, even if slabbed.

[pedigreeking-migration]

Very simple, CGC can reslab all the trimmed books as restored / purple label. The people who got screwed can go after the seller - ewert. CGC really has no responsibilty other than getting all the trimmed comics reslabbed.

[OldGuy]

Once all these trimmed books have been identified and refunds given what do you all think will happen to the books themselves?

 

They'll get sent to "the other" certification company to get clean unrestored designation.

[the blob]

Mr. Ewert did not invent trimming. It has been going on as long as there was more money to be made by a book looking nicer via trimming. Good trimming jobs have gone unnoticed for decades and probably exist in many a non-PLOD slab as well as in raw collections around the planet. The bad trim jobs tend to raise red flags.

[Johnny G]

I would imagine that a person who was passing off thousands of fake bills at a bank (on a regular basis), would have to have someone on the "inside".

 

Getting warmer.

 

Doesn't take a rocket scientist, does it?

[tth2]

The history behind the pedigree comics is probably the main reason for collecting them. Grades probably second reason.

 

Exactly. Well said, Ken.

What "history"? I'll grant the story behind the Reilly collection is tragic and therefore interesting, and the Green River collection has the serial killer connection, but that's it. Seems like the history behind most of the other collections is either (i) obsessive compulsive eccentric accumulates lots of comics or (ii) kid buys comics and is more anal retentive than his friends, therefore he takes better care of them.

 

I guess the Salidas history is interesting because it illustrates the oppressive conditions that Mexican-Americans were forced to live in in Colorado during the 1950s, but if he weren't a deaf mute would the story really stand out?

[shadroch]

Very simple, CGC can reslab all the trimmed books as restored / purple label. The people who got screwed can go after the seller - ewert. CGC really has no responsibilty other than getting all the trimmed comics reslabbed.

 

 

Do you really believe that CGC has no responsibility except to check to see what they missed the first time around? I certainly hope they don't agree,or we'll soon be seeing a whole bunch of former CGC employees looking for work when they shut their doors.

[Forbush-Man]

The history behind the pedigree comics is probably the main reason for collecting them. Grades probably second reason.

 

Exactly. Well said, Ken.

What "history"? I'll grant the story behind the Reilly collection is tragic and therefore interesting, and the Green River collection has the serial killer connection, but that's it. Seems like the history behind most of the other collections is either (i) obsessive compulsive eccentric accumulates lots of comics or (ii) kid buys comics and is more anal retentive than his friends, therefore he takes better care of them.

 

I guess the Salidas history is interesting because it illustrates the oppressive conditions that Mexican-Americans were forced to live in in Colorado during the 1950s, but if he weren't a deaf mute would the story really stand out?

 

Of course there's also the "Denver" collection, where the little old lady only purchased #1's as a future investment. Quite possibly the very first speculator, and absolutley correct too. I'm amazed by that one, seeing as she began doing this in 1938.

[PedigreeMan]

What "history"? I'll grant the story behind the Reilly collection is tragic and therefore interesting, and the Green River collection has the serial killer connection, but that's it. Seems like the history behind most of the other collections is either (i) obsessive compulsive eccentric accumulates lots of comics or (ii) kid buys comics and is more anal retentive than his friends, therefore he takes better care of them.

 

We apparently strongly disagree on what makes a good story, Tim. Either that, or you're ignorant. To wit, try and tell me these aren't riveting tales:

• Love him or hate him, Chuck's recounting of the Edgar Church find.
  
• The whole story of Jon Berk finding Lamont Larson and ultimately digging up such minute aspects as the name of the store owner that pulled the books.
  
• All of the intrigue over the stolen Cosmic Aeroplane books. (Although, granted, the full story on this still probably needs to be told publicly.)
  
• You already mentioned Tom Reilly.
  
• Moondog's multi-year ordeal in securing the Windy City pedigree.
  
• The absolute and complete bizareness surrounding the Carson City/Comstock find (read Comics Between the Panels or go do a search in the GA forum).
  
• Trying to decipher the "D Copy" code.
  
• The Curator's sex change.
  
• The sheer size of the Bethlehem find.
  

There's also something visceral about relating to those oldtime collectors existing in a time when collecting comic books was something innovative. Whereas you simply see "obsessive compulsive eccentrics" or "anal retentive kids," I see pioneers. I also look to them for a bit of affirmation that "I am not alone" (aren't most comic collectors fighting that "outsider" mentality?) or maybe even for a bit of insight into my own character and personality.

 

It's not all emotional with me -- the white page goodness and insane rarity of Salida books is probably more the #1 reason why I collect them -- but it does play a large part.

 

Alan

[skybolt]

I agree that the stories behind a lot of those Pedigree books you mentioned are intriguing. However, any book that survived 60+ years and is in HG condition today is special IMO. Some of these books may have a great story behind them, but have lost their Pedigree status over time. I don't think they should be penalized and regarded one bit less than books with known stories behind them. It's almost like saying a pair of twins were born back in 1940 and became billionaires in 2000. However, one of the two lost all his records back in 1980 and can't prove how he became this successful. Is his accomplishment less than the other brother's?

[tth2]

We apparently strongly disagree on what makes a good story, Tim. Either that, or you're ignorant. To wit, try and tell me these aren't riveting tales:

• Love him or hate him, Chuck's recounting of the Edgar Church find.
  
• The whole story of Jon Berk finding Lamont Larson and ultimately digging up such minute aspects as the name of the store owner that pulled the books.
  
• All of the intrigue over the stolen Cosmic Aeroplane books. (Although, granted, the full story on this still probably needs to be told publicly.)
  
• You already mentioned Tom Reilly.
  
• Moondog's multi-year ordeal in securing the Windy City pedigree.
  
• The absolute and complete bizareness surrounding the Carson City/Comstock find (read Comics Between the Panels or go do a search in the GA forum).
  
• Trying to decipher the "D Copy" code.
  
• The Curator's sex change.
  
• The sheer size of the Bethlehem find.
  

There's also something visceral about relating to those oldtime collectors existing in a time when collecting comic books was something innovative. Whereas you simply see "obsessive compulsive eccentrics" or "anal retentive kids," I see pioneers. I also look to them for a bit of affirmation that "I am not alone" (aren't most comic collectors fighting that "outsider" mentality?) or maybe even for a bit of insight into my own character and personality.

 

It's not all emotional with me -- the white page goodness and insane rarity of Salida books is probably more the #1 reason why I collect them -- but it does play a large part.

 

Alan

Don`t get me wrong, because as you know, I like pedigree books too. But it seems to me most of the "stories" you`re referring to, such as the Church, Windy City and Larson pedigrees, are more about the discovery itself, or the discoverer, rather than any riveting story about the creation of the collection itself. In other words, your interest seems to be more in von Schliemann than Troy. Even with Curator the sex change is only a bizarre sideshow because it had nothing to do with the formation of the collection itself, only why it got sold.

 

That`s why I think the Reilly collection is really unique, because there the interesting story is about the collection itself, rather than about how the collection surfaced. I agree that it`s amazing that these oddballs assembled and preserved incredible collections at a time when no one else was doing it, but then again, that`s why they were oddballs.

[nearmint]

I've never heard conclusively whether the girl who accumulated the Okajima books was actually in a Japanese internment camp at the time, but if so, that's a heck of a story.

[october]

In other words, your interest seems to be more in von Schliemann than Troy.

 

I love this analogy! Who are you, Dennis Miller?

 

[tth2]

In other words, your interest seems to be more in von Schliemann than Troy.

 

I love this analogy! Who are you, Dennis Miller?

I auditioned for MNF, but they thought my references were too out there.

[october]

In other words, your interest seems to be more in von Schliemann than Troy.

 

I love this analogy! Who are you, Dennis Miller?

I auditioned for MNF, but they thought my references were too out there.

 

 

I was sad when they got rid of him.

[tth2]

I've never heard conclusively whether the girl who accumulated the Okajima books was actually in a Japanese internment camp at the time, but if so, that's a heck of a story.

Yup, good one, Jeff. If it`s true that she accumulated her books in an internment camp, that`s definitely a notable story.

[Darthdiesel]

In other words, your interest seems to be more in von Schliemann than Troy.

 

I love this analogy! Who are you, Dennis Miller?

 

Ditto. The line struck a chord with me as well...the PT Barnum of modern-day archaeology... very nice.

[PedigreeMan]

But it seems to me most of the "stories" you`re referring to, such as the Church, Windy City and Larson pedigrees, are more about the discovery itself, or the discoverer, rather than any riveting story about the creation of the collection itself.

 

Yeah, but the pedigree creation itself relates to obsessive compulsiveness, and you were insulting the obsessive compulsives in your first response on the subject so I decided to go with another track entirely.

 

Performing OC-related analysis on the pedigrees themselves is absolutely part of their appeal. Go read Dr. Pat Kochanek's analysis of the books in the Larson pedigree in CBM #31 and tell me you don't get goosebumps by placing yourself in young Lamont's shoes each month during the late '30s. Or tell me that you haven't imagined old Edgar walking to his drug store each and every week to pick up his stack of books. Or why he really stopped collecting in the mid-'50s (retirement or SOTI influence?).

 

There's an entire treatise in me on "what makes a pedigree," and I've really only touched upon the briefest of aspects here. Believe me, Tim, there are many, many factors involved.

 

Alan