Cameo Appearance Debate 1 1

[Wall-Crawler]

50 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

What? Venom appears on the last page of the previous issue, and that's without even getting into the two Web issues.

Wasn't the Web panel just a single hand and he's unnamed?????

#298 is actually just shows Brock completely obscured...And again, his hands, but the symbiote forming around them...

But ok, sure, if you want to consider hands and fully obscured figure a first appearance, that's cool.

 

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, Wall-Crawler said:

Wasn't the Web panel just a single hand and he's unnamed?????

#298 is actually just shows Brock completely obscured...And again, his hands, but the symbiote forming around them...

But ok, sure, if you want to consider hands and fully obscured figure a first appearance, that's cool.

 

Oh, so you can disregard brief appearances that don't meet your standards? Gotcha.

[Wall-Crawler]

3 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Oh, so you can disregard brief appearances that don't meet your standards? Gotcha.

YUP! 😊

[CyberSnake]

The Constantine "cameo" has always bugged me. I'd consider it a Sting appearance, if anything. The "1st unofficial Justice League Dark appearance" listings always give me a chuckle too. Glad cgc doesn't recognize either of these. 

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, Amazeron said:

What would appearances like Namor in Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 and Superman in the ads for Action Comics #1 (prior to it’s release) be? They exist outside of the fictional canon which the characters appear on print but they’re still appearances. Would these count as cameo appearances? 

Ads are just ads, not appearances. MPFW was apparently never actually distributed, but it's still an interesting piece of history.

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, CyberSnake said:

The Constantine "cameo" has always bugged me. I'd consider it a Sting appearance, if anything. The "1st unofficial Justice League Dark appearance" listings always give me a chuckle too. Glad cgc doesn't recognize either of these. 

Both are ridiculous garbage from people who are too dumb to even live.

The story of Constantine's creation was told and is available for people to learn. John Constantine absolutely does not appear in 25 and it's ironic that Bissette didn't get to do the (interior) art for 37.

My breakdown of the Justice League Dark nonsense is here. It's the same as calling X-Men 1 the first appearance of the Champions.

[Terry JSA]

On 7/2/2021 at 4:08 AM, The lips said:

As an example, and in my opinion…First appearance of wolverine is IH180 as is first appearance of Venom ASM299. 
 

There the issues when we first see them in all their glory. 

THIS! If it’s the 1st time we see them then it’s their 1st appearance.

[kav]

Just once I'd like to see an actual cameo in a comic.

[AJLewandoski]

There are far too many like this. How about Alpha Flight? They're on the cover of X Men #120, the group and its purpose are named, each characters face is shown in the book with a blurb about who they are, their backstory, and their alter ego, most of them talk throughout, all of them are shown fighting the X Men (albeit at a few odd angles) but that's their cameo appearance and #121 is their full? Seems silly seeing as how they're the driving force of the story in both books. #121 is certainly more action oriented but #120 sets everything up. Where's the consensus here?

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, Terry_JSA said:

On 7/2/2021 at 3:08 AM, The lips said:

As an example, and in my opinion…First appearance of wolverine is IH180 as is first appearance of Venom ASM299. 
 

There the issues when we first see them in all their glory. 

THIS! If it’s the 1st time we see them then it’s their 1st appearance.

But ASM 299 is not the first time we see Venom. It's just the first time we see the majority of his body in a panel without it being obscured.

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, AJLewandoski said:

There are far too many like this. How about Alpha Flight? They're on the cover of X Men #120, the group and its purpose are named, each characters face is shown in the book with a blurb about who they are, their backstory, and their alter ego, most of them talk throughout, all of them are shown fighting the X Men (albeit at a few odd angles) but that's their cameo appearance and #121 is their full? Seems silly seeing as how they're the driving force of the story in both books. #121 is certainly more action oriented but #120 sets everything up. Where's the consensus here?

In 120, each individual member of Alpha Flight appears only briefly (and partially, in costume), with the exception of Vindicator, who has a significant presence in the issue. Aurora appears only in her regular guise in her bio-like panel.

[kav]

First appearance should be when the character was first introduced.  Period.  Hulk 180.  The end.

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, kav said:

First appearance should be when the character was first introduced.

It is. But because comic books (at least the ones relevant to this discussion) contain serialized stories, many appearances, first or not, are brief teasers that are basically ads for the next installment. Then, because a lot of people actually read comic books, they describe and value these appearances differently, and I don't (necessarily) mean monetary value.

As seen in this thread, some people are also overly focused on the art and the physical depiction of a character, as if mystery isn't a valid part of storytelling and writers contribute nothing to comic books.

[The lips]

8 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

But ASM 299 is not the first time we see Venom. It's just the first time we see the majority of his body in a panel without it being obscured.

We don’t see venom in 298. We see a hidden Eddie Brock with black stuff crawling up his arm. That’s not a first full appearance 

[HotKey]

2 hours ago, The lips said:

We don’t see venom in 298. We see a hidden Eddie Brock with black stuff crawling up his arm. That’s not a first full appearance 

The black stuff IS Venom. Dylan getting the symbiote and still being called Venom should put to rest all the opinions that ONLY Eddie + Suit = Venom. 

Marvel has said otherwise and they are really the only authority on it since it is their creation. 

Web #18, first appearance.

[THE_BEYONDER]

41 minutes ago, HotKey said:

The black stuff IS Venom. Dylan getting the symbiote and still being called Venom should put to rest all the opinions that ONLY Eddie + Suit = Venom. 

Marvel has said otherwise and they are really the only authority on it since it is their creation. 

Web #18, first appearance.

By that logic, ASM 252 is the first Venom.

[Lazyboy]

3 hours ago, The lips said:

We don’t see venom in 298.

Yes, we do. Eddie didn't exist (to us, the reader) before they became Venom.

3 hours ago, The lips said:

We see a hidden Eddie Brock with black stuff crawling up his arm.

You're aware of how the symbiote works and changes its appearance, right?

3 hours ago, The lips said:

That’s not a first full appearance 

Of course it's not, just like 299 isn't. They're both brief teasers.

[HotKey]

7 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

By that logic, ASM 252 is the first Venom.

Could easily be, but that opens up another debate: was the symbiote ALWAYS Venom or did Spidey getting rid of it create the hate that led to that personality emerging/being created? 

Either way,  Dylan being Venom should redefine Venom's first appearance. 

[Lazyboy]

55 minutes ago, HotKey said:

Could easily be, but that opens up another debate: was the symbiote ALWAYS Venom or did Spidey getting rid of it create the hate that led to that personality emerging/being created? 

Either way,  Dylan being Venom should redefine Venom's first appearance. 

Nothing Marvel does now matters. They abandoned real continuity long ago.

The symbiote itself is not Venom.

[Cobbledclam]

On 7/3/2021 at 4:59 PM, Amazeron said:

Regardless of cameos and full appearances: A character’s first appearance is a character’s first appearance. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.