Fear the 1099 or Please Pay me F&F 1 1

[ttfitz]

7 hours ago, Math Teacher said:

I'm not adverse to paying taxes. My biggest concern is how to prove the price that I paid for a book to the IRS.

The first time I ever spent a substantial amount of money on a book was in May, 1980. I had just graduated from college, and I used the graduation money I received to purchase a copy of Amazing Spider-Man #1 for $300. I paid the seller $300 in cash, face to face, so I didn't get a receipt. But even if I had gotten a receipt, I would never had thought that I would need to hold onto that receipt for 40+ years. Honestly, can anyone of you say that you have kept a receipt from 1980?

First off, if you make less than half a million a year, the audit rate is something less than 0.5%. So the chances of getting audited are pretty low.

Second, if you are one of the unlucky few who get audited, if you sold that ASM #1 now, depending on condition you got thousands to tens of thousands of dollars for it, and I doubt any IRS auditor is going to question your claim of paying $300 in 1980.

Third, if you do get an unreasonable auditor, your added tax bill is going to be what, under $90? Not great, but not a calamity given the money you walked away from the table with.

[Buzzetta]

18 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

Several conversations at my local shop and from a few dealers lately have centered on the 1099. 
I know several are panicked on FB and IG now as it looks like in the very near future everyone 
is going to get one or at least significantly more then the normal 20k/200 transaction limit from the 
past. 

I have noticed more sellers asking for F&F lately and I think this is the case as well. As a buyer I never
send F&F and I would recommend to many of you not to either because it nullifies your buyer protection
under paypal if you didn't know it. People fall prey to this as a scam a lot as well. Its also an attempt to get
out of paying taxes lets be honest about it at least.

Now the bright side of all of this that have been doing 1099 for while. Our 
competition is going to get smaller which means more customers. I think next year selling is going to be
great because of this. 

Agree/Disagree?

 

 

 

You are missing a key component there.  As a customer of yours and seller to you, (Just sent your invoice) there are many lower value books changing hands.  Many of the people that you sell to, and I have sold to are looking to flip those books.  Your competition is also your customer.  With many people dropping out, the customer base shrinks for that tier book. 

Now, guys like Metropolis and Bob who regularly sell books in the four to five figures will experience business as usual.   If anything higher value books will increase in value as they are assigned price tags to compensate for the lack of growth, if not decline in the smaller books.  They will be fine.

Again though.  I don't care about comics. It is the average homeowner and others who scrape by.  I know several people who sell their used things from around the house that are going to get a surprise in 2023.  These are people not running a business but using eBay to generate some money to get rid of old things that might generate some money that they had laying around that they no longer use.  They have asked me about it and I have told them, either donate it to the poor, start figuring out the paperwork or records, or sell it now.

They are selling things like clothes, handbags, tools, their children's baby toys, playpens, car seats and anything like that now so they don't have to deal with it.

However, I have to be also honest here.  There are probably a lot of the modern flippers not paying taxes.  Those are the hardcore guys speculating on every moronic variant Marvel can put out.  I guarantee you that they are about to become far more selective in their purchases which means that less is being bought. 

 

[WolverineX]

2 hours ago, Hulksdaddy1 said:

I always figured it was my lack of drive, ambition and talent, but I'll go with what you said.

Those traits aren't mutually exclusive

[Xenosmilus]

42 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

You are missing a key component there.  As a customer of yours and seller to you, (Just sent your invoice) there are many lower value books changing hands.  Many of the people that you sell to, and I have sold to are looking to flip those books.  Your competition is also your customer.  With many people dropping out, the customer base shrinks for that tier book. 

Now, guys like Metropolis and Bob who regularly sell books in the four to five figures will experience business as usual.   If anything higher value books will increase in value as they are assigned price tags to compensate for the lack of growth, if not decline in the smaller books.  They will be fine.

Again though.  I don't care about comics. It is the average homeowner and others who scrape by.  I know several people who sell their used things from around the house that are going to get a surprise in 2023.  These are people not running a business but using eBay to generate some money to get rid of old things that might generate some money that they had laying around that they no longer use.  They have asked me about it and I have told them, either donate it to the poor, start figuring out the paperwork or records, or sell it now.

They are selling things like clothes, handbags, tools, their children's baby toys, playpens, car seats and anything like that now so they don't have to deal with it.

However, I have to be also honest here.  There are probably a lot of the modern flippers not paying taxes.  Those are the hardcore guys speculating on every moronic variant Marvel can put out.  I guarantee you that they are about to become far more selective in their purchases which means that less is being bought. 

 

I agree with your theory but remember (I'm sure you are aware of this but may have forgotten) you are only required to pay taxes on profit, not sales.  So those people selling their used things on eBay are selling at a loss (most likely) so don't have to report that money as income.

[Buzzetta]

3 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

I agree with your theory but remember (I'm sure you are aware of this but may have forgotten) you are only required to pay taxes on profit, not sales.  So those people selling their used things on eBay are selling at a loss (most likely) so don't have to report that money as income.

I didn't forget.  They will still have to report it.  They still have to file the paperwork demonstrating a loss.

No one is saving the receipt from a used high chair.  So at that point is is either paid in taxes as if they are making a profit, it is receiving an assigned value with no proof of documentation but in many cases you are hoping for the government to have common sense. 

Either way, I see a market decline in so far as purchases and customer base for books $100 and under especially even more so in the $50 or under crowd.

I am not afraid of paying taxes, but I firmly believe that the market FOR CERTAIN LEVEL BOOKS will decline in 2023 once people start getting hit with 2022 love letters in the mail from the IRS. 

[Xenosmilus]

6 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I am not afraid of paying taxes, but I firmly believe that the market FOR CERTAIN LEVEL BOOKS will decline in 2023 once people start getting hit with 2022 love letters in the mail from the IRS. 

I agree to some level. Like I said earlier, for most, this is a hobby and when it starts to become work, people will leave the hobby.

[fastballspecial]

20 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I didn't forget.  They will still have to report it.  They still have to file the paperwork demonstrating a loss.

No one is saving the receipt from a used high chair.  So at that point is is either paid in taxes as if they are making a profit, it is receiving an assigned value with no proof of documentation but in many cases you are hoping for the government to have common sense. 

Either way, I see a market decline in so far as purchases and customer base for books $100 and under especially even more so in the $50 or under crowd.

I am not afraid of paying taxes, but I firmly believe that the market FOR CERTAIN LEVEL BOOKS will decline in 2023 once people start getting hit with 2022 love letters in the mail from the IRS. 

Completely understand. 

Market contraction or seller contraction? Based off this year either is fine for me, but I prefer the later just saying.

 

[ttfitz]

3 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

I didn't forget.  They will still have to report it.  They still have to file the paperwork demonstrating a loss.

No one is saving the receipt from a used high chair.  So at that point is is either paid in taxes as if they are making a profit, it is receiving an assigned value with no proof of documentation but in many cases you are hoping for the government to have common sense. 

This part I agree with. It's part of the argument that I used in emails I sent to [certain people responsible for this sort of thing happening], pointing out just how many people who are essentially having an online garage sale were going to get 1099s for items they are selling at a loss, which adds to the paperwork that will have to be matched up by the tax folks, leading to a greater chance of causing problems (I cited the low percentage of returns audited, which is a general thing, but your odds go up if you seem to not be declaring income that shows up in document filings). If this doesn't change, hopefully there will be some reasonable people examining such cases.

[toro]

I'm all set for next year, I am going to buy this book and everything will be fine. 

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363073251555?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=363073251555&targetid=1264870805944&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9002159&poi=&campaignid=13825239242&mkgroupid=123999284545&rlsatarget=pla-1264870805944&abcId=9300603&merchantid=118856961&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5OKu_pXa8QIVl8DICh2G2AvuEAQYAyABEgJlsvD_BwE

Edited July 11, 2021 by toro

[namisgr]

17 hours ago, Chief1332 said:

I want to thank the Tax Man for TAKING his cut of our happiness, our enjoyment, our hobby, and applying it to who knows what and where for the betterment of us all.

 

Tell it to George Washington, who first instituted and enforced it (not exactly the uprising of the comic collector, but the Whiskey Rebellion was GW's to deal with).

Meanwhile, if you're looking for a place to direct anger over taxation on small time collectors, consider sending it to the wealthy tax cheats who fail to pay to the IRS a trillion dollars a year in legally owed taxes, increasing by that much the burden on all the rest of us.

Edited July 11, 2021 by namisgr

[Doctor Dositheus]

How much does it cost to buy a lobbyist? Maybe we could all pitch in and get some legislation that says comic book profits are tax free.

[HotKey]

Filing an LLC is less than $100 just about everywhere and shifts the tax burden to your LLC, removing your income bracket as a factor in the tax equation. 

Or so I've been told by multiple people with business tax knowledge. 

[WolverineX]

10 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

I didn't forget.  They will still have to report it.  They still have to file the paperwork demonstrating a loss.

No one is saving the receipt from a used high chair.  So at that point is is either paid in taxes as if they are making a profit, it is receiving an assigned value with no proof of documentation but in many cases you are hoping for the government to have common sense. 

Either way, I see a market decline in so far as purchases and customer base for books $100 and under especially even more so in the $50 or under crowd.

I am not afraid of paying taxes, but I firmly believe that the market FOR CERTAIN LEVEL BOOKS will decline in 2023 once people start getting hit with 2022 love letters in the mail from the IRS. 

 

 

10 hours ago, Xenosmilus said:

I agree to some level. Like I said earlier, for most, this is a hobby and when it starts to become work, people will leave the hobby.

Agreed.  Ebay and comics used to be fun and a nice way to get rid of clutter around the house.  Now I just donate stuff and I really have clamped down on buying more "stuff."   Going to see how it pans out and see if it's worth the hassle.  

[Chief1332]

6 hours ago, namisgr said:

Tell it to George Washington, who first instituted and enforced it (not exactly the uprising of the comic collector, but the Whiskey Rebellion was GW's to deal with).

Meanwhile, if you're looking for a place to direct anger over taxation on small time collectors, consider sending it to the wealthy tax cheats who fail to pay to the IRS a trillion dollars a year in legally owed taxes, increasing by that much the burden on all the rest of us.

I wish I could solve it all for you.

I understand how the tax system works a bit, and why it is necessary.  If I were a wealthy man, I would have professionals trying to save me as much of MY MONEY as possible, legally.  I cannot write tax bills, and sign them into law.  I can however vote.

I often wonder how many tax dollars are generated by a single dollar bill over its lifespan in America.  How many times, a single widget is taxed because it trades hands.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Chief1332
spelling

[Randall Ries]

23 hours ago, Math Teacher said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but the one thing that bothers me the most about the IRS is the fact that you are considered guilty until you can prove your innocence. A nutjob can go into a business or school and shoot a dozen people, but s/he is considered innocent until proven guilty.

Yes, but the nutjob is jailed immediately. I haven't seen nutjob 1 ever being released on their own recognizance. Or go on a book tour pre-trial. Or get on social media claiming "Fake News!"

Between you and I? Every nutjob that gets arrested in that circumstance I pretty much consider them guilty. And as far as I know, I'm batting 1000. No one will even take my bets! "Bet Dylann Roof is guilty! Betcha ANYTHING!"

As far as comics go, it's big business now. Everything is credit card, Venmo and PayPal. Have to figure that in the future, there will be even MORE electronic payment options. Cash is almost virtually impossible to use in these situations. When comic conventions become safe again, cash will be the best way to go.

Perhaps those resisting the tax paying idea can get a doctor note signed saying that comic books to them are an emotional support tool. Without them, they will be "anxious", "nervous", susceptible to panic attacks.

But seriously, folks. You are gonna have to pay. Who do you think you are? It's not as if you are Jeff Bezos or something.

[Math Teacher]

40 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Or get on social media claiming "Fake News!"

But seriously, folks. You are gonna have to pay. Who do you think you are? It's not as if you are Jeff Bezos or something.

[Bookery]

This article seemed to answer some questions --

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/26/its-going-to-get-harder-to-avoid-telling-the-irs-about-income-from-online-sales.html

 

[ThatNerdyCanuck]

I'm surprised PayPal doesn't crack down on the amount of FF Payments some people are receiving, you would think they would catch on. 

[WolverineX]

Want money and get tax payers to fund you.  Go into big banking.

 

The title of this may seem hokey but it's an incredibly accurate depiction of our system in pay.  One of the best youtube videos on the platform. 

 

 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

Next will be a 1099 for your used car you sell to a private party, or trade into a dealer, yard sale profit, etc.