Slab defect issues. How much do you put up with? 1 1

[Marvel_Madness]

I've been sending books to CGC for long enough to understand different defects that occur in the encapsulation process. I try to not be bothered by minor smudges or insignificant imperfections, but it seems to be more sloppy and careless recently.

In my most recent submission more than half of the 25 books returned were unacceptable to me. Broken slabs, easily noticeable scratches, grimy finger prints and glue stains, where does it end? I'm used to 1-3 comics being returned like this, but 14/25? I'm curious if other people are having these issues. Honestly, I'm shocked that a company built on taking months to look over minor details can find this acceptable. Is this just what people consistently endure through CGC, am I being overly concerned with slab appearance, or is this a sign of the times growing pains of the current CGC? Just hoping to see how other people are currently experiencing slabs being returned and to what degree they find bothersome imperfections on slabs. 

Thank you!  

[Chief1332]

Quality Control.. comes to mind when I hear a tale such as this.  Or rather, lack thereof.

[The Lions Den]

17 hours ago, Marvel_Madness said:

I've been sending books to CGC for long enough to understand different defects that occur in the encapsulation process. I try to not be bothered by minor smudges or insignificant imperfections, but it seems to be more sloppy and careless recently.

In my most recent submission more than half of the 25 books returned were unacceptable to me. Broken slabs, easily noticeable scratches, grimy finger prints and glue stains, where does it end? I'm used to 1-3 comics being returned like this, but 14/25? I'm curious if other people are having these issues. Honestly, I'm shocked that a company built on taking months to look over minor details can find this acceptable. Is this just what people consistently endure through CGC, am I being overly concerned with slab appearance, or is this a sign of the times growing pains of the current CGC? Just hoping to see how other people are currently experiencing slabs being returned and to what degree they find bothersome imperfections on slabs. 

Thank you!  

*sigh*  

[Marvel_Madness]

7 hours ago, Bob Loblaw III said:

I don't think CGC uses glue in any capacity 

That's what you are concerned about? "Glue" for lack of a better word when someone is frustrated? Sure, maybe it's not glue, I have no idea nor do I care what CGC uses. I'm simply trying to understand if everyone is experiencing this or finds it acceptable..  Smudges that sometimes clean off on the outside, some that do not from the inside.. Obviously I'll be sending back the broken/severely scratched slabs, but this seems like an easily avoidable issue that only creates more delays at CGC. I was actually hoping other people were either bothered and to expect less in the future or some input related to the tolerance of minor imperfections. Just disappointed and hoped to reach out to the community..

[Randall Ries]

14 hours ago, Marvel_Madness said:

That's what you are concerned about? "Glue" for lack of a better word when someone is frustrated? Sure, maybe it's not glue, I have no idea nor do I care what CGC uses. I'm simply trying to understand if everyone is experiencing this or finds it acceptable..  Smudges that sometimes clean off on the outside, some that do not from the inside.. Obviously I'll be sending back the broken/severely scratched slabs, but this seems like an easily avoidable issue that only creates more delays at CGC. I was actually hoping other people were either bothered and to expect less in the future or some input related to the tolerance of minor imperfections. Just disappointed and hoped to reach out to the community..

I care a lot. I don't send my books for CGC to grade. I have heard too many stories of damage to both the slabs and the books. I participated in a merry little thread about an Avengers 4 being damaged not once, but 2 times when the owner sent it back for "repair". CGC can't repair the tear to the cover they delivered to it. Just iron it and try to pretend it isn't there. Then sent it back and the bottom well collapsed and damaged the book along the bottom cover and pages. Nice.

I care a lot. My only saving grace is that I'm not a greedhead and care more about the book I have than its monetary value. It isn't imperative I have them graded by CGC or anyone else. I know how to care for my books and am also a half way decent grader. If I sell a book, I can sit down with a buyer and we can come to an agreement on a grade and a price. I don't want to have to factor in what I might have paid to have the thing grade processed. Because if my buyer decides to buy the book, then sell it later on, HE will have to factor in what HE paid for it which would reflect MY costs for grading.

I care a lot. Comic book collectors have turned CGC from a useful tool to a church. Where CGC now tells the collector what is what and what they can and can't do. The collector at large doesn't see to realize anymore that THEY are reason CGC exists. Seems like they think it's the other way around. And that they will see big dividends if they get in league with Satan and do his bidding. They seem to have forgotten about the Tax Man. And mergers. And buyouts. And how corporations treat their customers. And employees. That'll be a biggie down the road. When Blackstone starts mistreating their CGC employees.

I care a lot. I love collecting books and I don't have hyper funds to collect the way others do. I am slow, methodical and buy as a "treat" to myself. I buy what I love. I buy slabs and I buy raw. I won't be threatened with the "Oh noooo! What if it's RESTOORRRRED?" Boogeyman? I'm trying to avoid all the greed and way overpaying for common books. I refuse to look at my books as "Blue Chip" books. Like they are a piece of paper and I own "stock". And that I'm a hot-shot Wheeler-Dealer chomping a giant Cuban cigar as I trade and sell books all day long like I'm on the trading floor on Wall Street.

I'm CERTAINLY not sending raw books in to have them mistreated, mishandle, misplaced and misgraded. There are too many bad stories right now. That Avengers 4 thing was tough to see. And from what I could gather, there was no compensation other than a $75 credit toward a future grading process. That's a $7,000 book. A 7.5 that was delivered a tear. $75? That to me says contempt.

I care a lot.

[Marvel_Madness]

2 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

I care a lot. I don't send my books for CGC to grade. I have heard too many stories of damage to both the slabs and the books. I participated in a merry little thread about an Avengers 4 being damaged not once, but 2 times when the owner sent it back for "repair". CGC can't repair the tear to the cover they delivered to it. Just iron it and try to pretend it isn't there. Then sent it back and the bottom well collapsed and damaged the book along the bottom cover and pages. Nice.

I care a lot. My only saving grace is that I'm not a greedhead and care more about the book I have than its monetary value. It isn't imperative I have them graded by CGC or anyone else. I know how to care for my books and am also a half way decent grader. If I sell a book, I can sit down with a buyer and we can come to an agreement on a grade and a price. I don't want to have to factor in what I might have paid to have the thing grade processed. Because if my buyer decides to buy the book, then sell it later on, HE will have to factor in what HE paid for it which would reflect MY costs for grading.

I care a lot. Comic book collectors have turned CGC from a useful tool to a church. Where CGC now tells the collector what is what and what they can and can't do. The collector at large doesn't see to realize anymore that THEY are reason CGC exists. Seems like they think it's the other way around. And that they will see big dividends if they get in league with Satan and do his bidding. They seem to have forgotten about the Tax Man. And mergers. And buyouts. And how corporations treat their customers. And employees. That'll be a biggie down the road. When Blackstone starts mistreating their CGC employees.

I care a lot. I love collecting books and I don't have hyper funds to collect the way others do. I am slow, methodical and buy as a "treat" to myself. I buy what I love. I buy slabs and I buy raw. I won't be threatened with the "Oh noooo! What if it's RESTOORRRRED?" Boogeyman? I'm trying to avoid all the greed and way overpaying for common books. I refuse to look at my books as "Blue Chip" books. Like they are a piece of paper and I own "stock". And that I'm a hot-shot Wheeler-Dealer chomping a giant Cuban cigar as I trade and sell books all day long like I'm on the trading floor on Wall Street.

I'm CERTAINLY not sending raw books in to have them mistreated, mishandle, misplaced and misgraded. There are too many bad stories right now. That Avengers 4 thing was tough to see. And from what I could gather, there was no compensation other than a $75 credit toward a future grading process. That's a $7,000 book. A 7.5 that was delivered a tear. $75? That to me says contempt.

I care a lot.

Thank you, I understand and appreciate the experiences your shared. It's easy to feel alone or frustrated when so many factors are out of your control. I did not come here to complain, but I was curious what kind of experiences other people are having in the past/currently. I'm also exhausted with the speculation and way people talk about comics online. The 'stock' equivalency and unpleasant interactions from the entire circle of collecting is not an environment I'm enjoying. It seems impossible to find people like you grounded with values and care about the right things. My experiences are generally people more concerned with slab conditions and lack the understanding of how to grade a book.

My father collected books like Avengers #4 as a child for cover price and maintained their condition while reading the stories. He enjoyed sharing the stories with me and would not have graded the books, possibly for concerns as you mentioned. After he passed, I felt like grading the books was the best thing that could be done to protect the condition and cherish those memories. I actually started by learning to 'grade' the books and reaching out to people like you, but only encountered people trying to take advantage of the situation. CGC seemed like the only choice that made sense and expected difficulties, but not with this consistency. I'm saddened to be looking forward to not making submissions in the future. At some point it becomes necessary to sell books due to the heavy grading fees for large submissions and CGC seems to have a monopoly on the collector's choice.

I don't really know how they are able to maintain their name and value based on these experience, nor do I have insight of what to expect from the future, but I appreciated being able to read and reply to your comment. Best of luck with your endeavors!

[Marvel_Madness]

5 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw III said:

A Mylite2 and Fullback do just as well 

 

Sure, every book was protected in this way, but it's nice to have other options for other purposes.. Non-comic people would struggle to understand or appreciate such things without places like CGC. It's much more desirable to display a slab and didn't think it would be such a challenging ordeal. 

It also feels rewarding to have books returned in the high 9 range after being told the value is significantly less from disingenuous people. You might want to consider that companies like CGC are the only desirable route for people in similar situations. I was left in a position of more comics than I would like to keep around with "Mylite2 and Fullback". I guess you are just enjoying making cheeky comments, but I intended to make a serious post rather than "fanboy histrionics".

[Randall Ries]

3 hours ago, Marvel_Madness said:

Thank you, I understand and appreciate the experiences your shared. It's easy to feel alone or frustrated when so many factors are out of your control. I did not come here to complain, but I was curious what kind of experiences other people are having in the past/currently. I'm also exhausted with the speculation and way people talk about comics online. The 'stock' equivalency and unpleasant interactions from the entire circle of collecting is not an environment I'm enjoying. It seems impossible to find people like you grounded with values and care about the right things. My experiences are generally people more concerned with slab conditions and lack the understanding of how to grade a book.

My father collected books like Avengers #4 as a child for cover price and maintained their condition while reading the stories. He enjoyed sharing the stories with me and would not have graded the books, possibly for concerns as you mentioned. After he passed, I felt like grading the books was the best thing that could be done to protect the condition and cherish those memories. I actually started by learning to 'grade' the books and reaching out to people like you, but only encountered people trying to take advantage of the situation. CGC seemed like the only choice that made sense and expected difficulties, but not with this consistency. I'm saddened to be looking forward to not making submissions in the future. At some point it becomes necessary to sell books due to the heavy grading fees for large submissions and CGC seems to have a monopoly on the collector's choice.

I don't really know how they are able to maintain their name and value based on these experience, nor do I have insight of what to expect from the future, but I appreciated being able to read and reply to your comment. Best of luck with your endeavors!

Thanks for the pleasant reply. I get sick of the arrogance and sarcasm I find with some comments. This might sound "Pepperidge Farm", but my pappy taught us kids how to take care of our stuff. By showing us how to handle them and most importantly showed us how cheap he was by not getting us stuff all the time.

My very first comic book was Superman 250 my father bought me at a pharmacy. I fell in love with both Superman and Neal Adams art on the spot. Much later in life, I had some books I sold and experienced seller regret. Great. Now, I don't have the books. All I have is money now. What am I supposed to do with this? From that point on, I kept my books if I couldn't replace them.

Now, common, heavily populated books are selling for ridiculous money. I blame the collector/seller for that. It's greed pure and simple. And ego. "Look what I can do! I can wheel and deal like a Wall Street pro! I can try to hose other buyers while at the same time refusing to pay for a book today that I have the nerve to charge top dollar for tomorrow! Buy low! Sell high!" It's their fault prices are so high and for being CGC slaves. The number in the upper left hand corner has decided what is what. The magazine it is supposed to be representing is way beside the point.

I am a big fan of the top loader. Hard, sturdy plastic. Slip the book into mylar, slip both into a top loader. Be careful! Easy does it! Just like Pappy used to say! There! Why, that looks awesome! It's well protected as well and guess what? A top loader is all one piece! Not a bunch of different pieces that rip and crush edges sometimes or collapse and wrecks the bottom edge of my beloved book.

To me, it's the book. It's part of pop culture history. It reflects to a degree what was going on and when. It's in nice shape and I own a copy.

I am glad to have seen your post and that you were decent when you responded. I will leave you with a photo of my copy of Bat #221 I picked up a few weeks ago. It looks like a 9.2-9.4 or so IMO. It's complete. No resto. A little printer ink on the back. A book that would have cost me minimum between $600-$700 CGC graded on ebay or other places cost me $180 raw. It's become a popular book for the cover only as it's a Neal Adams classic Bat cover. So, prices are shooting up for a book that is heavily populated with only an Adams cover and interior art. It's what I consider "collecting" and not "commerce".

Take care, friend! Collect with your heart.

[The Lions Den]

22 hours ago, Marvel_Madness said:

That's what you are concerned about? "Glue" for lack of a better word when someone is frustrated? Sure, maybe it's not glue, I have no idea nor do I care what CGC uses. I'm simply trying to understand if everyone is experiencing this or finds it acceptable..  Smudges that sometimes clean off on the outside, some that do not from the inside.. Obviously I'll be sending back the broken/severely scratched slabs, but this seems like an easily avoidable issue that only creates more delays at CGC. I was actually hoping other people were either bothered and to expect less in the future or some input related to the tolerance of minor imperfections. Just disappointed and hoped to reach out to the community..

I hope it gets better, but like everything else, it's ain't what it used to be...

[djzombi]