Determining value and rarity of Copper Newsstands 2 2

[Subby1938]

Shhhhhhhh

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 7:25 AM, Subby1938 said:

both versions blow away American version

What are you going on about? This thread is not about Canadian Newsstands.

[FlyingDonut]

On 8/2/2021 at 7:53 PM, Subby1938 said:

You in can trust this . They are 1% of total run . I live here . In Canada you had three major city hubs for comics , Vancouver , Toronto , Montreal . Finding high grade 9.8 Canadians is next to impossible . Hence the major major premiums keys get . 
 

You don’t have to collect Canadian but if it was hulk 181 variant it would be all the rage 

This is 100% pure unadulterated hokum. No they are not. Do the math. If Amazing Spider-Man 238 had a print run of 500,000 copies - which is not out of the realm of possibility - by your count there would be 5,000 total copies for all of Canada.

BTW - you might also want to talk to Doug Sulipa in Winnipeg, which isn't one of the three cities you list above.

[Subby1938]

Look at last sale of 9.8 Canadian . It was 7500.00 USD nothing hokum there my friend . Sales don’t lie .

 

So my stats are slightly off so what . I didn’t expect to get attacked this morning on threads for stating the obvious . For huge keys in 9.8 newstands they are premium compared to regulars and Canadian versions even more . 
 

Bye now 

 

Could care less about that dive Winnipeg or Doug’s opinion . Sales data are there . 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Subby1938

[Subby1938]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:32 AM, Lazyboy said:

What are you going on about? This thread is not about Canadian Newsstands.

It’s about copper Newsstands so does it not fit into criteria buddy?

[revat]

On 8/3/2021 at 6:50 AM, Subby1938 said:

On 8/3/2021 at 5:32 AM, Lazyboy said:

What are you going on about? This thread is not about Canadian Newsstands.

It’s about copper Newsstands so does it not fit into criteria buddy?

 

It's like going to a "Giants Baseball" thread and saying, "Actually Barry Bonds doesn't have the Giants record for homers in a season, Sato Kanagawa hit 75 homers in 1991 for the Yokohama Giants.  What? I thought we were talking Giants baseball?"

 

 

 

[waaaghboss]

On 8/3/2021 at 6:50 AM, Subby1938 said:

It’s about copper Newsstands so does it not fit into criteria buddy?

I'm not your buddy, guy!

 

I think they'll keep going up a bit, since people paying a premium for graded copper books aren't on the same wavelength as me.  I've always preferred direct copies, and if speculators want to help keep their price down I'm all for it.

[Morganmi]

So back to the regular newstand thing. I don't really understand why someone would think having a bar code or a spidy face or whatever matters and why some people will pay  more for one or the other but then again I don't understand why people will pay 2 or 3x or more for a 9.8 over a 9.6 when most people can't tell the difference anyway but the data is there and apparently an arbitrary grade by a so called expert matters to enough people.    

So now the data is showing people are paying more for certain newstands I might not do that but each to their own is my attitude. 

[Subby1938]

It’s not spec anymore  buddy . It’s been few years of this now and high grade newsstands out perform directs 

The newsstand was just that a comic that was manhandled at 7/11 stores etc and probability of perfect books is low 

ASM 238,239,252,298,299,300,301,316,361 are great examples of huge premiums that’s just spiderman

[mytastebud]

I thought I would weigh in again. For me newsstand or direct sales doesn't matter for my permanent collection. I'm a completist in that I want all the issues to a series so I can read it. I don't need all the variants 2nd prints Whitman's and everything else in between. Newsstand vs direct does matter though when I want to sell off copies of books I purchased multiples of in the 80's. I bought multiples hoping to sell them for books I still need, which it seems a lot of people did.

I was hoping for someone to shed some light on the matter from personal experience meaning purchases and sales in different parts of the country (and outside of it.

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:48 AM, Subby1938 said:

Could care less about that dive Winnipeg or Doug’s opinion .

I'd really like to suggest quite a few things for you to do with your mouth right now, but I don't want to get banned.

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:10 AM, FlyingDonut said:

This is 100% pure unadulterated hokum. No they are not. Do the math. If Amazing Spider-Man 238 had a print run of 500,000 copies - which is not out of the realm of possibility - by your count there would be 5,000 total copies for all of Canada.

BTW - you might also want to talk to Doug Sulipa in Winnipeg, which isn't one of the three cities you list above.

Yeah, Winnipeg is a major comics hub in Canada. Montreal and Vancouver may be major cities, but despite that, they really aren't major comics hubs.

[Brock]

These discussion always have the potential to go off the rails as people jump onto their hobby horses about whether or not you can estimate the relative rarity of any particular newsstand edition 35 years after the fact. I don't have a dog in that fight.

However, the central question here seems to be whether newsstands have any additional value, and to me the answer is clearly yes. When selling online, I now always identify newsstand copies. They get more views, and they tend to get better prices - which is exactly why people (like me) have started to identify them in their listings.

The premium is not always consistent, but - as has been pointed out - does seem to be substantially higher on key books.

I am of the vintage where we told ourselves that there was no difference in value between direct and newsstand editions, and I understand that crotchety old people (like me) don't like change, and have a tough time accepting that the market has moved in this direction. We scream "hype machine" and "huckster" and "clueless buyers" and yell at the kids to get off the lawn, but the reality is that the market is changing.

Would I personally pay a premium for a newsstand? Probably not, but pretending that others don't is willful ignorance.

Suggesting that the only reason that someone would pay a premium is because they're stupid, or susceptible to hype is explicitly misunderstanding the market. So-called hype and personal preferences about purchases are the only thing that drive the market. I really don't have much time for Todd McFarlane's art, and I can't fully explain why some random McFarlane issue would sell for more than an issue by someone I like (say, Barry Windsor-Smith) without resorting to "hype" and "bandwagon" and "personal preferences". However, the market gives a rat's behind about my personal beliefs, and instead reflects the collective choices of the wider audience. And that collective choice means that even if I'm not as hyped as others about McFarlane art, I have to be aware of it and present it to the market appropriately if I want the best sales result on a book he has drawn. In the same way, the collective choice of the market now seems to favouring newsstands. It doesn't help anybody to whine about that - as a seller, I can only respond to it.

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:34 PM, Brock said:

These discussion always have the potential to go off the rails as people jump onto their hobby horses about whether or not you can estimate the relative rarity of any particular newsstand edition 35 years after the fact. I don't have a dog in that fight.

However, the central question here seems to be whether newsstands have any additional value, and to me the answer is clearly yes. When selling online, I now always identify newsstand copies. They get more views, and they tend to get better prices - which is exactly why people (like me) have started to identify them in their listings.

The premium is not always consistent, but - as has been pointed out - does seem to be substantially higher on key books.

I am of the vintage where we told ourselves that there was no difference in value between direct and newsstand editions, and I understand that crotchety old people (like me) don't like change, and have a tough time accepting that the market has moved in this direction. We scream "hype machine" and "huckster" and "clueless buyers" and yell at the kids to get off the lawn, but the reality is that the market is changing.

Would I personally pay a premium for a newsstand? Probably not, but pretending that others don't is willful ignorance.

Suggesting that the only reason that someone would pay a premium is because they're stupid, or susceptible to hype is explicitly misunderstanding the market. So-called hype and personal preferences about purchases are the only thing that drive the market. I really don't have much time for Todd McFarlane's art, and I can't fully explain why some random McFarlane issue would sell for more than an issue by someone I like (say, Barry Windsor-Smith) without resorting to "hype" and "bandwagon" and "personal preferences". However, the market gives a rat's behind about my personal beliefs, and instead reflects the collective choices of the wider audience. And that collective choice means that even if I'm not as hyped as others about McFarlane art, I have to be aware of it and present it to the market appropriately if I want the best sales result on a book he has drawn. In the same way, the collective choice of the market now seems to favouring newsstands. It doesn't help anybody to whine about that - as a seller, I can only respond to it.

Whether you like McFarlane or BWS is irrelevant, since they didn't become popular (coincidentally? ) after massive amounts of misinformation about them started spreading.

[Lazyboy]

On 8/3/2021 at 12:21 PM, mytastebud said:

I thought I would weigh in again. For me newsstand or direct sales doesn't matter for my permanent collection. I'm a completist in that I want all the issues to a series so I can read it. I don't need all the variants 2nd prints Whitman's and everything else in between. Newsstand vs direct does matter though when I want to sell off copies of books I purchased multiples of in the 80's. I bought multiples hoping to sell them for books I still need, which it seems a lot of people did.

I was hoping for someone to shed some light on the matter from personal experience meaning purchases and sales in different parts of the country (and outside of it.

My answer remains the most relevant.

[valiantman]

Growing up, there were zero comic shops in my town. 

The only comics were at the grocery store, in the magazine racks next to the fruits and vegetables.  They were all newsstand books.

They were bent over at the staples, they had water droplets from the sprayers in the produce section.

High grade 1980s newsstand books represent a completely impossible concept from my childhood.

Others might have gotten perfect condition newsstand books from a drug store that kept them behind the counter.

Others might love direct editions because they went to the comic shop every week as a kid and hate ugly barcodes.

I pay more for high grade newsstands of the books I want today.

It's a lie to say that everyone should care.

It's a lie to say that no one should care.

Edited August 3, 2021 by valiantman

[mec3437]

Some people pay a premium for a distribution method.  I admit to paying more for Marvel UK price variants.  I rarely go out of my way for newsstands.  Some people are all about it, some are not.  For my collection, it really doesn't matter if I have a direct or newsstand.  Except for ASM 328.  I want a 9.8 newsstand of that because it was the first comic I ever read.  

[Qalyar]

Copper Age newsstands, in and of themselves, are not particularly rare (the same is not always true of later books). Newsstands, in nearly any time period where both distribution channels existed, are almost always more difficult to get at high grade. That drives prices up for high-grade newsstand copies of key issues, and to a lesser extent drives up prices for newsstand copies of weird books with low overall distribution numbers (and very likely higher return counts). There's a lot of kind of Copper books in the middle that are probably not hard to find at a minimal premium (although to some extent, 9.6/9.8 newsstand copies are always a bit of a chase).

As for whether people should care? I was a significant philatelist for awhile. Take a widely collected series of stamps: the 1938 Presidential series. Some people were type collectors; they were happy to just have one of each design. Some people wanted all the versions that the Scott Catalog assigns distinct numbers to -- different perforations, different distribution methods. Some -- fewer -- people were specialist collectors wanted every possible variety, every printing plate difference, every tiny change in ink color ratios or paper stock.

None of those people were "wrong". Likewise, you're not wrong if you just want a copy of each issue of whatever you collect. You're not wrong if you want one of each cover. And you're not wrong if you chase a specialist's approach to completion, hunting distribution variants, price variants, Canadian issues, pence copies, Australian issues, inserts, reprints, and whatever else is distinguishable.

Collect what you want.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Qalyar

[FlyingDonut]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:34 PM, Brock said:

These discussion always have the potential to go off the rails as people jump onto their hobby horses about whether or not you can estimate the relative rarity of any particular newsstand edition 35 years after the fact. I don't have a dog in that fight.

However, the central question here seems to be whether newsstands have any additional value, and to me the answer is clearly yes. When selling online, I now always identify newsstand copies. They get more views, and they tend to get better prices - which is exactly why people (like me) have started to identify them in their listings.

The premium is not always consistent, but - as has been pointed out - does seem to be substantially higher on key books.

I am of the vintage where we told ourselves that there was no difference in value between direct and newsstand editions, and I understand that crotchety old people (like me) don't like change, and have a tough time accepting that the market has moved in this direction. We scream "hype machine" and "huckster" and "clueless buyers" and yell at the kids to get off the lawn, but the reality is that the market is changing.

Would I personally pay a premium for a newsstand? Probably not, but pretending that others don't is willful ignorance.

Suggesting that the only reason that someone would pay a premium is because they're stupid, or susceptible to hype is explicitly misunderstanding the market. So-called hype and personal preferences about purchases are the only thing that drive the market. I really don't have much time for Todd McFarlane's art, and I can't fully explain why some random McFarlane issue would sell for more than an issue by someone I like (say, Barry Windsor-Smith) without resorting to "hype" and "bandwagon" and "personal preferences". However, the market gives a rat's behind about my personal beliefs, and instead reflects the collective choices of the wider audience. And that collective choice means that even if I'm not as hyped as others about McFarlane art, I have to be aware of it and present it to the market appropriately if I want the best sales result on a book he has drawn. In the same way, the collective choice of the market now seems to favouring newsstands. It doesn't help anybody to whine about that - as a seller, I can only respond to it.

I have no problem with the market moving one way or the other. What I have a problem with is hucksters and boosters and shady dealers - and I will put literally EVERYONE who is pumping newsstands as "super rare" and "1 of 100 variants" when they have no idea what the print runs were in that category. Go ahead and list your book as a newsstand - that's fine. Don't say your copy of Secret Wars 8 is a "super rare newsstand" because you're full of .

[Brock]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:20 PM, Subby1938 said:

Winnipeg is murder capital of Canada

That would actually be Thunder Bay, at 5.56 per 100,000.

Winnipeg gets a bad rap, and whether you like a city or not is always a matter of personal taste, but every time I'm in Winnipeg, I'm amazed by the density of comic shops, the number of big dealers, and the availability of comics in other venues (bookstores, antique shops, etc.). For some reason, it has become a genuine comic hub.

Vancouver is definitely not a comic town, though it has a couple of decent shops. Contrary to some earlier suggestions, though, I do think Montreal is a bit of a hub as well... there's a lot of activity, but especially so if you add in the French-language BD community.