Show Us Your Books Scuttled By Stan Lee 2 2

[Ken Aldred]

Theory of mind.  You can't expect others to see the situation exactly the way you do, and, going to a convention, to a creator you have no real knowledge of, and expecting them to see the intense importance of all the factors you personally associate with the book and transaction, is open to possible misunderstanding, confusion and dissatisfaction, all vectored in your direction.

For me, as an obsessive-compulsive, either accept the reality there, the risk of the handover, or, don't do it, don't play the table.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Ken Aldred

[kav]

On 8/17/2021 at 2:48 PM, Randall Ries said:

It's nothing to them. It really does fall on the collector for the most part. Or more likely the mercenary who plans on selling the book to someone who has no taste. That's really a point I can't argue against. Adams would probably sign my a@# if I paid him to.

On the other hand, I have zero sympathy when I'm paying $200 for a signature or whatever it is. Frank Miller Does his little doodly things on DKR books. Why? Because he isn't getting a cut on the sale of original artwork. So he draws them terribly. Miller is the last artist I would ask a sketch from.
The sigs and sketches I see 4 sale 4 ever are the personalized ones. There is a GL/GA #76 Adams signed "to Bruce" that's been sitting forever. Geez. How do I buy that at that asking price? I'm not Bruce.

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 1:32 PM, Qalyar said:

Here's my take on it.

I don't collect Signature Series books. My personal collection is all raws and blue labels (and a couple weird manufacturing defects in green but that's not the point...). I don't begrudge people getting most books signed. Like those ASM 298 and 299s just posted? Those are cool books. They're not what I collect, but I collect weird anyway. I have absolutely no problem with them.

I have problems with Sig Series books when one -- or more -- of the following is true:

• Someone gets cute and has a book signed by someone not realistically related to the book. That Stan Lee on the Star Wars 1 35 cent variant that I posted? Yeah, that's one of the problems there. Stan Lee scribbles on DC books for the lulz? Absolutely. MCU actors signing books with "their" character (by name) but unrelated to the modern portrayal, much less their involvement with it are personally pretty far up there for me, too. Purely as a hypothetical: Sebastian Stan is awesome, but does anyone think a copy of Captain America Comics #1 would be improved by Stan's signature (on the grounds that it's the first appearance of Bucky Barnes, who becomes the Winter Soldier, who Stan plays in the MCU)? Or even Chris Evans, for that matter? At least, I hope that's a hypothetical; there are 3 Sig Series copies of Captain America Comics 1, after all (at least one is Joe Simon)...
• The signer does something to actively make the cover much, much worse. Sometimes this is the fault of submitters with "clever" ideas about where to put the window on their window bags. Sometimes it's the signers' fault. Stan Lee seemingly had a thing for signing across faces, for example. And while good sketches and remarques can be legitimately amazing, we've all seen bad ones phoned in with a sharpie.
• Perhaps most of all, it bothers me when legitimate rarities (either in terms of overall scarcity or even scarcity in grade) are consumed for Signature Series books. I get it. SS collectors want high grade copies, too. But the process isn't reversible. There are hundreds and hundreds of 9.8 copies of ASM 298 and 299; those signatures didn't realistically limit collector access to equivalent Universal books, but for some issues, it really can. For a dramatic example, let's look at the census for Captain America Comics 3. It's understandable why people wanted this book signed, because it was Stan Lee's first work for Timely. But it's a legitimate rarity, with 112 total copies on census (assuming there's no label duplication there). Sixteen of those books are signed (plus another six in hybrid purple/yellow labels). Over 10% of the slabbed copies. Now, to the credit of the Sig Series collectors, I suppose, the handful of highest-graded copies aren't signed. But they could have been. With enough cash, that sole 9.6 at the top of census could have been shipped off to a Stan Lee signing, leaving a handful of 9.2s at the top of the Universal census. Would that have made the book better? Would that have made the book's population better? It's possible in more recent books, too. Over 10% of the copies of Albedo 2 on census are Sig Series; fully 20% of the 9.8 copies are in yellow labels now.

Well said. Get all the IH 181's signed and remarqued you like. There is no shortage of those things. I guess we can all thank God some smart guy like Nelson Muntz didn't ship out an 8.0 Action 1 or Detective 27 for Lee to sign. "See what I did? I'm a genius and I have the only Act1/Tec27 signed by Stan Lee! See? It's FUNNY because he didn't WORK for NPP! Wot a RIOT! HA-HA!"

[Ken Aldred]

On 8/17/2021 at 10:55 PM, Randall Ries said:

Well said. Get all the IH 181's signed and remarqued you like. There is no shortage of those things. I guess we can all thank God some smart guy like Nelson Muntz didn't ship out an 8.0 Action 1 or Detective 27 for Lee to sign. "See what I did? I'm a genius and I have the only Act1/Tec27 signed by Stan Lee! See? It's FUNNY because he didn't WORK for NPP! Wot a RIOT! HA-HA!"

The Batman 1 reprint he signed was bad enough.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Ken Aldred

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:51 PM, Ken Aldred said:

Theory of mind.  You can't expect others to see the situation exactly the way you do, and, going to a convention, to a creator you have no real knowledge of, and expecting them to see the intense importance of all the factors you personally associate with the book and transaction, is open to possible misunderstanding, confusion and dissatisfaction, all vectored in your direction.

For me, as an obsessive-compulsive, either accept the reality there, the risk of the handover, or, don't do it, don't play the table.

 

That's right. Man, I can't even send books to be graded because of the variables. I wouldn't have anything signed - MUCH less sketched on - without being there in person giving direction.

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:56 PM, Ken Aldred said:

The Batman 1 reprint he signed was bad enough.

Really? I didn't see that. It lacks imagination. People doing that. It even rankled me when Sheldon, then Raj, planned to get a copy of a Batman book signed by Lee at Stuart's comic book store. And that was fictional. But not, really.

[Qalyar]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:55 PM, Randall Ries said:

Well said. Get all the IH 181's signed and remarqued you like. There is no shortage of those things. I guess we can all thank God some smart guy like Nelson Muntz didn't ship out an 8.0 Action 1 or Detective 27 for Lee to sign. "See what I did? I'm a genius and I have the only Act1/Tec27 signed by Stan Lee! See? It's FUNNY because he didn't WORK for NPP! Wot a RIOT! HA-HA!"

Exactly. I don't care if people get books signed that are keys. I care if people get books signed that are rare.

There are, right now, 128 IH181 in 9.8U and 12 in 9.8SS. So... okay, that means 9.8SS are about 8.5% of the 9.8 population. That's ... high, but it's a long way off from the 10% mark that I view as sort of a danger threshold. And there are thousands of lower grade Universal copies to compete with hundreds of Sig Series books. The only obstacle to owning IH181, in nearly any grade you desire, is money. I rarely chase keys and I've owned three of the darn things at different times.

But if instead of 100ish copies at 9.8, there are a 100ish copies total. Or less. Then... please, please think about what you're doing before you have it autographed. We're collectors, and I say very often that people should collect what they want. And I get it, people want to collect Sig Series books. But we're also, in a sense, custodians of the history of this genre and these books.

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 3:55 PM, jcjames said:

I did exactly that and even said that I had this one since I was a little kid and Neal Adams told me I could go find a better looking copy waving his hand aimlessly out towards the con. 

 

 

See, now THIS is a great book. I wish I had kept this one from when I was a kid. Mine disintegrated.

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:02 PM, Qalyar said:

But if instead of 100ish copies at 9.8, there are a 100ish copies total. Or less. Then... please, please think about what you're doing before you have it autographed. We're collectors, and I say very often that people should collect what they want. And I get it, people want to collect Sig Series books. But we're also, in a sense, custodians of the history of this genre and these books.

Stan Lee said that as well on some documentary on comic books I was watching as well. The really RARE books will only get rarer. it's a sad state of affairs sometimes because especially in the US, everything is disposable. Even history. We as a culture couldn't care less about history. It's always about money. Even this hobby. Collectors talking like big shots on Wall Street. Meh. Money is fleeting. It used to be about "I have this amazingly scarce item and am fortunate to have it for what it represents." Anyone can make money. If that's all they want out of life.

Rarity should put it in a different tier altogether. Try to have some respect.

[sckao]

I think it should also be pointed out that artists by their nature probably sign naturally where they THINK/Feel the signature will look good in relation to the artwork. (If they don't, they may be doing it on purpose for some reason... or having a bad day.) Everything is part of the design.

A writer may not think that way.  

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

Not mine, but definitely needs to be placed here..  This book got roached.. 

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:48 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Not mine, but definitely needs to be placed here..  This book got roached.. 

That's the one I keep referring to. Looks NICE, right? Definite enhancement, right?

[The Lions Den]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:48 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Not mine, but definitely needs to be placed here..  This book got roached.. 

[HighVoltage]

On 8/17/2021 at 2:03 PM, kav said:

"Kneel-I didnt say I wanted you to sign a good looking copy I said I wanted you to sign the one I had since I was a little kid.  Pls try to pay attention"
(waves hand in front of Kneel's face)

Two things about Neal:

1) He can be a narcissistic Richard for sure.
I've met 'regular' Neal (fun interaction) and 'Richard' Neal (see ya later, Neal, I ain't paying for anything you're selling today).

2) He (usually) has terrific signature placement & a good signature.

[HighVoltage]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:23 PM, sckao said:

I think it should also be pointed out that artists by their nature probably sign naturally where they THINK/Feel the signature will look good in relation to the artwork. (If they don't, they may be doing it on purpose for some reason... or having a bad day.) Everything is part of the design.

A writer may not think that way.  

 

I agree 100%.

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:53 PM, Randall Ries said:

That's the one I keep referring to. Looks NICE, right? Definite enhancement, right?

Just makes you want to draw a bug on your hand.. 

[Qalyar]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:48 PM, Randall Ries said:

The sigs and sketches I see 4 sale 4 ever are the personalized ones. There is a GL/GA #76 Adams signed "to Bruce" that's been sitting forever. Geez. How do I buy that at that asking price? I'm not Bruce.

The first edition book collectors' community is -- usually -- pretty accepting of author autographs. But even they have disdain for these personalized dedications to ... other people.

It's cool if you're getting your beater OO copy signed because of nostalgia, but please don't ask for this on books that other people may want later. 

[sckao]

And what are we really talking about here anyway? Are we really complaining about an 87-year old man who was a WRITER sketching something on a comic when asked? Totally not Stan's fault but the requester who had some sort of brain meltdown. (I think that slab was signed in 2008 and Stan Lee was born in 1922.)

That's like asking an artist with no writing credentials at all to write a love sonnet on the cover of one of his comics... or a delicate haiku 

(This might be the beginning of a terrible idea here...  )

 

 

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 7:46 PM, Qalyar said:

The first edition book collectors' community is -- usually -- pretty accepting of author autographs. But even they have disdain for these personalized dedications to ... other people.

It's cool if you're getting your beater OO copy signed because of nostalgia, but please don't ask for this on books that other people may want later. 

I had the opportunity to have Olivia De Havilland sign a Melanie 8x10 for me. Either to me or just the sig. I went for just the sig. She had a gorgeous sig as well.

[Randall Ries]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:11 PM, sckao said:

And what are we really talking about here anyway? Are we really complaining about an 87-year old man who was a WRITER sketching something on a comic when asked? Totally not Stan's fault but the requester who had some sort of brain meltdown. (I think that slab was signed in 2008 and Stan Lee was born in 1922.)

That's like asking an artist with no writing credentials at all to write a love sonnet on the cover of one of his comics... or a delicate haiku 

(This might be the beginning of a terrible idea here...  )

 

 

Yeah but the buck stops with Stan where this is concerned.