Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[WolverineX]

On 8/31/2021 at 5:09 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

 

Beautiful puppy! Hope you had a fun time on the walk

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/31/2021 at 6:46 PM, Wolverinex said:

Beautiful puppy! Hope you had a fun time on the walk

We did 

[jaybuck43]

Just chiming in to add a few things to the discussion.

1) whether Haspel draws a W-2 is irrelevant to the discussion. There are three legal tests that determines whether or not someone is an employee or not. A) the control test. Can Haspel set his own hours? Does he have to do his work as stipulated by WATA or is he free to determine how and when he does things? If wata controls what he does and how he does it, he’s an employee. B) the integration test. Is Haspels work integral to the business or merely an accessory to it. Here’s almost assuredly where any court will view Haspel as an employee. He’s on the masthead. He consults and gives them ideas. His work assuredly is integral to the business. If it wasn’t, why would they advertise his services. C. For completeness, the third test is the multiple test, which examines multiple factors to see if a contract of service exists. 
 

now of course, denis can wiggle and claim that when he said employees he meant something else etc, but overall it’s not a good look.

2) the danger i and others (gene and I were talking about this for at least 5 years in some form or another going back to bitcoins first run) is that this is all an unprotected investment class. Money is flowing in, people are buying like crazy and the market is ballooning (crypto, comics, cards, etc). What you’re seeing is the battle between “free” and regulated capitalism.  Free capitalism basically looks at this and says “fleece the sheep” who cares? The problem is this is short sighted. It ignores the long term damage to the markets at large. Look at Atari and Nintendo. Atari was so quick to cash in they allowed the worst shovel wear ever. Nintendo literally had to set rules to how many games a year could be published to regain the public’s trust. Home  Video games as a whole could have died if not for the (self) regulation the industry put on itself because of the greed of one company. If/when alternative asset classes collapse, it’s going to have a tremendous impact writ large. People are taking out mortgages and lines of credit to buy these assets. You’ll see defaults jump etc, which has other effects I won’t bother to get into. It’s not a matter of trying to protect people, but unsustainable markets in general are not good. The ultimate market is a market that slowly rises over time. Jagged corrections occurring can be overcome. Hyperbolic curves only end in one way. Bust.

[Charleybrown]

The buyer of the first Super Mario for 100k stepped forward (Jim Halperin and co.). Why hasnt anyone stepped up and stated they bought one of these recent high sales. All of a sudden everyone is anonymous on all of these purchases. If I paid 1.5 mil for a game a few months ago I would want to put everyone at ease and step forward and say yes I paid this much for this game, here is the proof and I stand by my purchase. Maybe that's not possible because these games are being bought by someone with a vested interest i.e Wata. What better advertising could they get for 1.5 mil? 

[jjonahjameson11]

On 8/23/2021 at 4:44 PM, Buzzetta said:

Funny you mention that. 

That was also part of this morning's texts back and forth how one specific art dealer took on the inventory of another dealer's who took it on from another.  I have been following a set of certain pages when they were announced to the public as being 'for sale' and then they 'sold' but the others were available at an increased price. 

I am becoming disenchanted with collecting these days. 

Buzz, this is nothing new… I remember this happening among 3 prominent OA dealers back when I started collecting OA approximately 20 years ago.

[comicwiz]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:27 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Another interesting thing.  Check out his feedback.  Every sale is a best offer accepted.  BUT when you run down the sales, the best offers were all the same as the listing price.  

I believe that is a limitation of the eBay platform - one which they disabled again recently. Last time they showed the accepted offer, they would show it under a "taxexclusive" tag in the page code, then out nowhere, they removed it. This has been an ongoing thing for several years now. Maddening for anyone that is trying to check for past sales through the BIN accepted offer feature of the website.

[BanjerD]

On 9/1/2021 at 8:53 AM, comicwiz said:

I believe that is a limitation of the eBay platform - one which they disabled again recently. Last time they showed the accepted offer, they would show it under a "taxexclusive" tag in the page code, then out nowhere, they removed it. This has been an ongoing thing for several years now. Maddening for anyone that is trying to check for past sales through the BIN accepted offer feature of the website.

you can use 130point.com to see the best offer, and actually eBay has their own "research" tool under the 'Seller' menu, which goes back one year to see past prices, including best offer paid

[jaybuck43]

On 8/31/2021 at 7:53 PM, comicwiz said:

I believe that is a limitation of the eBay platform - one which they disabled again recently. Last time they showed the accepted offer, they would show it under a "taxexclusive" tag in the page code, then out nowhere, they removed it. This has been an ongoing thing for several years now. Maddening for anyone that is trying to check for past sales through the BIN accepted offer feature of the website.

Thanks.

[jaybuck43]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:02 PM, BanjerD said:

you can use 130point.com to see the best offer, and actually eBay has their own "research" tool under the 'Seller' menu, which goes back one year to see past prices, including best offer paid

I believe this is only included if you have a store.  

[BanjerD]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:03 AM, jaybuck43 said:

I believe this is only included if you have a store.  

You don't need a store, but you need to have a current seller account

[comicwiz]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:02 PM, BanjerD said:

you can use 130point.com to see the best offer, and actually eBay has their own "research" tool under the 'Seller' menu, which goes back one year to see past prices, including best offer paid

130point has been hit and miss, and yes I have used the Terapeak research on some of the stuff. I wonder if they'll be charging for that at some point. A bit clunky for my liking, I preferred just being able to go right into the page -script if needed and pull it out. Good of you to point out there being another way, thanks for mentioning it.

[Buzzetta]

On 8/31/2021 at 7:50 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Buzz, this is nothing new… I remember this happening among 3 prominent OA dealers back when I started collecting OA approximately 20 years ago.

 Somehow I am betting it is the same three. 

But this is what I ask the OA guys.  Is your collection 'worth' what it is because of normal value increases that occur over time and demand...

Or are you basing it on three rich guys trading inventory back and forth with no real money changing hands. 

 

That and I don't care if Kirby drew it. If all you see is a behind the scenes shot of Thor's leg and whatever he is looking at in the distance, I would pick a full page spash of Thor by an up and coming artist if it is drawn well.  But but but... Kirby drew it...

 

uh huh. 

[kav]

On 8/31/2021 at 5:35 PM, Buzzetta said:

 Somehow I am betting it is the same three. 

But this is what I ask the OA guys.  Is your collection 'worth' what it is because of normal value increases that occur over time and demand...

Or are you basing it on three rich guys trading inventory back and forth with no real money changing hands. 

 

That and I don't care if Kirby drew it. If all you see is a behind the scenes shot of Thor's leg and whatever he is looking at in the distance, I would pick a full page spash of Thor by an up and coming artist if it is drawn well.  But but but... Kirby drew it...

 

uh huh. 

Wut if he's looking at Sif undressing with a bunch of handmaidens tho?

[Buzzetta]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:44 PM, kav said:

Wut if he's looking at Sif undressing with a bunch of handmaidens tho?

Did your parents beat you with a stick or anything when you were growing up? 

 

I mean I got the wooden spoon.  Other people I know got the chancla.

[kav]

On 8/31/2021 at 5:46 PM, Buzzetta said:

Did your parents beat you with a stick or anything when you were growing up? 

just thrown at wall and then my mom digging her fingernails.

[kav]

On 8/31/2021 at 5:46 PM, Buzzetta said:

Did your parents beat you with a stick or anything when you were growing up? 

 

I mean I got the wooden spoon.  Other people I know got the chancla.

when we wouldnt go to sleep and kept giggling dad would come in and either douse us with water or send us outside in the cold.  we learned to throw blankets out the window when we heard the footsteps.

[COI]

On 8/31/2021 at 7:31 PM, jaybuck43 said:

 

now of course, denis can wiggle and claim that when he said employees he meant something else etc, but overall it’s not a good look.

2) the danger i and others (gene and I were talking about this for at least 5 years in some form or another going back to bitcoins first run) is that this is all an unprotected investment class. Money is flowing in, people are buying like crazy and the market is ballooning (crypto, comics, cards, etc). What you’re seeing is the battle between “free” and regulated capitalism.  Free capitalism basically looks at this and says “fleece the sheep” who cares? The problem is this is short sighted. It ignores the long term damage to the markets at large. Look at Atari and Nintendo. Atari was so quick to cash in they allowed the worst shovel wear ever. Nintendo literally had to set rules to how many games a year could be published to regain the public’s trust. Home  Video games as a whole could have died if not for the (self) regulation the industry put on itself because of the greed of one company. If/when alternative asset classes collapse, it’s going to have a tremendous impact writ large. People are taking out mortgages and lines of credit to buy these assets. You’ll see defaults jump etc, which has other effects I won’t bother to get into. It’s not a matter of trying to protect people, but unsustainable markets in general are not good. The ultimate market is a market that slowly rises over time. Jagged corrections occurring can be overcome. Hyperbolic curves only end in one way. Bust.

This is an interesting point.

Taking the focus off of graded games, which is the most niche of the collectibles currently seeing what appears to be hyperbolic growth, and just looking at the collectibles boom generally, I think it really depends on what is actually happening. Because the possibilities are a ton of average Joe buyers borrowing cheap money and throwing it into the market recklessly due to FOMO or whatever, a bunch of hedge fund/crypto/influencer types flowing in to move money around in an unregulated market, or you have a small groups of well funded/informed/connected individuals manipulating the market. Of course, all of these types exist and are active with overlap, but it's a matter of proportion I think. Because ironically, the market manipulator types and the hedge fund/crypto types, to the extent they exist, would actually operate as a perverse sort of regulation if they're selling stuff back and forth to each other to bolster prices. If they're all in on it, you wouldn't get the precipitous falls in price that would get the majority to panic, cash out, and crash the market, because if manipulation is happening and the top end prices aren't all real, you wouldn't expect a 'real' correction either. It's not technically unrestrained capitalism if manipulation constitutes a large part of the market activity, it's just a perverse sort of regulation where the controls are there, but are aligned with the best interests of those pulling the strings. As opposed to the situation you're describing with a bunch of individual, uncoordinated buyers risking their bankrolls due to hype.

I have no clue what the heck  is going  on, but it's super interesting to watch and try to think through.

[comicwiz]

If we're throwing out wild ideas, it would appear that we understand how someone holding 2000 Jordan's is fine, and that spending $400K to acquire one of them is all good, because it establishes a floor price or keeps moving the needle for the rest of their holdings to continue to increase in value. But the ultimate end game would be to take away the notion of ownership by a single person by pricing everyone out of their hobby, until fractional ownership is the only possibility. This allows the asset to be held and controlled by one entity or person(s) pulling the strings, while everyone else gambles away their money, believing they are stakeholders of some sort.

We have this with Rally, and the only way this fails is if collectors don't make it so easy for them by gravitating to the predictable same dozen keys everyone wants, just because market hype says their the ones to own. If they don't know what people want, they won't have any appealing offerings, and the whole model falters. But more importantly, if people actually followed what they preach, which is to collect what they love, you'd be flipping all the folks wanting to pull the rug out from under you the bird in the process. And maybe even enjoy your hobby again.

[Number 6]

On 8/31/2021 at 4:31 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Look at Atari and Nintendo. Atari was so quick to cash in they allowed the worst shovel wear ever. Nintendo literally had to set rules to how many games a year could be published to regain the public’s trust. Home  Video games as a whole could have died if not for the (self) regulation the industry put on itself because of the greed of one company.

As an aside, I’m not a gamer now and while I was very interested in playing arcade games in the early to mid-80’s I wouldn’t consider myself a big-time gamer as a kid. When we were in our late teens the two consoles we had were always hand-me-downs when our friends got the latest. 
 

Last year I listened to the audio book version of Console Wars.  Perhaps some of the gamers who are more versed can share their sentiments on the book, but as a relative outsider to the gaming world I found it very interesting as it deals largely with the competition between Sega and Nintendo but also touches on the time period referenced above regarding Atari. 
 

Just thought I’d pass along that book recommendation for anyone interested. I enjoyed it. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/31/2021 at 9:17 PM, Number 6 said:

As an aside, I’m not a gamer now and while I was very interested in playing arcade games in the early to mid-80’s I wouldn’t consider myself a big-time gamer as a kid. When we were in our late teens the two consoles we had were always hand-me-downs when our friends got the latest. 
 

Last year I listened to the audio book version of Console Wars.  Perhaps some of the gamers who are more versed can share their sentiments on the book, but as a relative outsider to the gaming world I found it very interesting as it deals largely with the competition between Sega and Nintendo but also touches on the time period referenced above regarding Atari. 
 

Just thought I’d pass along that book recommendation for anyone interested. I enjoyed it. 

Yes ,there have also been a few Netflix docuseries, it's all ia bit interesting having grown up during the time, when you'd hear all kinds of rumors and or this or that. It IS a nice closure to know the final deal surmised!