Why is the inner well indented? 1 1

[UncleBEN]

I have seen and experienced damage from books sliding into the indentations in the inner well. Is there a reason for this design? A straight line across the inner well would prevent much of this shaken comic syndrome damage. 

As I do not expect a complete redesign to happen any time soon, can wedges be requested on all books submitted? I have refrained from any new submissions for many years as a result of this flawed design. Any assistance would be appreciated

 

Thanks!

Edited September 5, 2021 by UncleBEN

[Jennifer F.]

Hi, thanks for your message. CGC doesn't design the inner wells, this is how they come from the supplier. We have tested the inner wells extensively and the vast majority of books that are stored properly have no issues.  We use wedges when we feel the book dimensions or in some instances the cut of an individual copy may not fit appropriately in our standard inner holder.  You certainly could request a wedge, if you wish, but it would be up to our encapsulation team to make the final determination on if a wedge is necessary during encapsulation.

If you have any other questions, you can reach us at 877-662-6642 or by email at submissions@cgccomics.com.

Thanks!

[UncleBEN]

I would encourage those that have damage done to their books showcase some images here, as per CGC they have tested the inner wells extensively and the vast majority of books that are stored properly have no issues. 

I am of the belief that most book's without a snug wedge that is stored vertically will suffer damage. And ANY book that suffers a hard impact to the top of bottom of the case(say during shipment) without a wedge will end up with an indented top or bottom edge. All of my high value raw books will stay that way until this design is changed. Even Voldemort has a better design for their inner well with a straight line across it. CGC has had a few case redesigns that incorporated no inner well, so one would think that this has been something they considered changing at one point?

 

[UncleBEN]

Here is a 3 million dollar example, albeit slight damage, but still apparent. There are a plethora of other examples showcasing SCS. Note there is no wedge in this holder.

 

[MattTheDuck]

On 9/7/2021 at 11:26 AM, UncleBEN said:

Here is a 3 million dollar example, albeit slight damage, but still apparent. There are a plethora of other examples showcasing SCS. Note there is no wedge in this holder.

 

Could you point out the damage to this book?

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:16 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Could you point out the damage to this book?

Could be me eyes, but the top left rear appears to have an indentation that follows the shape of the inner well indentation:

And there appears to be a rogue bit of plastic too:

[UncleBEN]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:16 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Could you point out the damage to this book?

It’s slight for now , but the top edge is not straight . Look at where the indentations are in the inner well on the top left .

 I would bet the bank that this will get worse .

 

[MattTheDuck]

@Get Marwood & I @UncleBEN  Thanks - I can see it with the magnification.

[Get Marwood & I]

Does that mean it's not a 9.6 anymore?

I mean, should I cancel my planned 4MIL bid?

[UncleBEN]

Wedges on the bottom help more with the sliding , a loose wedge on the side does not. 

This was an asm 2 8.0, not sure what it would grade out now, certainly would need some pressing done.

 

 

[namisgr]

On 9/7/2021 at 2:26 PM, UncleBEN said:

Here is a 3 million dollar example, albeit slight damage, but still apparent. There are a plethora of other examples showcasing SCS. Note there is no wedge in this holder.

I'd withhold judgement without seeing the slab in person.  The top and bottom of the inner well refracts light differently than the rest of it, and sometimes makes it appear on scans and photographs there is a slight inward bend to the top and/or bottom edge of a book.  But the bend isn't actually there.

[UncleBEN]

On 9/7/2021 at 1:02 PM, namisgr said:

I'd withhold judgement without seeing the slab in person.  The top and bottom of the inner well refracts light differently than the rest of it, and sometimes makes it appear on scans and photographs there is a slight inward bend to the top and/or bottom edge of a book.  But the bend isn't actually there.

I understand what you are saying, I don't think this is the case here , but I am open to be proven wrong. The purpose of this thread wasn't to nit pick this particular book but see why CGC chose a supplier with the indents in the first place. There are countless examples of books damaged from them and I hoped that this would at least see if there were options to add a wedge to the bottom or in the future CGC could consider using a safer design. As mentioned previously they did use a design without an inner well, this was done around 2000 and again recently but at the same time they changed their exterior case to a plastic that induced waviness. The 2000 era cases I have without an inner well , have ZERO damage, and ZERO Newton rings.

 

 

[Gaard]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:44 AM, Jennifer F. said:

CGC doesn't design the inner wells

I don't understand this. Could you please elaborate?

[namisgr]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:31 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Could be me eyes, but the top left rear appears to have an indentation that follows the shape of the inner well indentation:

 

This is almost certainly an artifact of differential light refraction along the plastic inner well in close proximity to the cover edge.  In other words, it shows up on a scan or photograph but isn't on the comic.

To confirm or refute, one would need to see the comic in person.  But refraction artifacts along the top edge of the inner well like this potential one are not uncommon.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/9/2021 at 4:28 PM, namisgr said:

This is almost certainly an artifact of differential light refraction along the plastic inner well in close proximity to the cover edge.  In other words, it shows up on a scan or photograph but isn't on the comic.

To confirm or refute, one would need to see the comic in person.  But refraction artifacts along the top edge of the inner well like this potential one are not uncommon.

I'm sure you are right. As I said in the other thread though, I would be concerned what would happen to the book if, say, it was turned upside down or took a jolt. There appears to be a small amount of travel distance within the inner well and the angled cut of the book means that the top left edge could meet the inner indentation curve before the rest of the book. It appears to me that the top edge of the comic could be bent in line with that indentation if the book were to travel within the inner sleeve.

That is all I am commenting on, that possibility and what looks like a small fragment in the case. This is a 4M book potentially - I think it is reasonable to question both elements accordingly, based on what the high definition scans provided appear to show. I would want confirmation that both scenarios are not as they appear for such a high value/profile book. 

Anyway, the shows starts shortly. 

[UncleBEN]

On 9/9/2021 at 7:42 AM, Gaard said:

I don't understand this. Could you please elaborate?

This +1000000, As my initial thought was that CGC was involved with the design process of their holder, but it sounds like "we get it from someone else"

Perhaps if CGC was the designer , we could alleviate the instances of SCS, I am not an engineer but I know an indented inner well is a FLAWED design .