Facsimiles- Could they ruin the hobby? 1 1

[WolverineX]

Just came across this Harbinger 1 facsimile and wondering if these near clones could be made to be an exact copy indistinguishable from the original?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294394636383?hash=item448b49a85f:g:-74AAOSwtpZhP68U

[WolverineX]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124931012922?hash=item1d1677f93a%3Ag%3AEfgAAOSw-FxhThVG&nma=true&si=6ZX4NeS5S67UOVRGRdX0tpRAnfc%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[WolverineX]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174916280304?hash=item28b9d29ff0:g:YoYAAOSwbWNhLVAm

 

[Vixom]

How so? The UF4 has a different barcode. Harbinger different price. You could make new covers but if that is your game you didn't need these books to start doing that. I bought a couple hundred to include with the real deal or in case they turn out like nm98 and you can sell them for $100 plus.

[Bronty]

Why would you support this garbage?

[Bronty]

Assuming they are what I think they are , which is counterfeits.    If they are publisher sanctioned reprints of course that’s different.   What are they?

[HotKey]

On 10/8/2021 at 6:00 AM, Bronty said:

Assuming they are what I think they are , which is counterfeits.    If they are publisher sanctioned reprints of course that’s different.   What are they?

Official reprints of UF4. Only the barcode is a little different and the small Marvel logo has a red background instead of a white one. Very easy to fool people that dont know about it and even some who do. Very harmful to new collectors in the market.

[universal soldier]

Another reason to do your homework before jumping on a hot book or any book with higher price tag.  Good info to know, thanks.

[WolverineX]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:56 AM, universal soldier said:

Another reason to do your homework before jumping on a hot book or any book with higher price tag.  Good info to know, thanks.

Other than the legal issues, what's stopping someone from reprinting a complete duplicate of UF4?   And would we be able to tell it apart from a real copy?

[theCapraAegagrus]

Quote

Could they ruin the hobby?

No.

"Investors" must do more homework, which is good for the health of the actual hobby.

[JollyComics]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:14 AM, HotKey said:

Official reprints of UF4. Only the barcode is a little different and the small Marvel logo has a red background instead of a white one. Very easy to fool people that dont know about it and even some who do. Very harmful to new collectors in the market.

Yep. The resale of those raw copies will sit on eBay or other venues for a long time. Too much confusions.

[Ride the Tiger]

IMO the hobby is already ruined. The average person can't afford key books. Ebay used to be a great place to buy and sell comics. Now it's a big collection of scammers. You used to be able to get your submissions back in a month or two. Now you wait 2X, 3X, whatever TATs are right now it's crazy. Don't get me started on the QC issues. I could go on but I think you get the point.

[Bluemedgroup]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:14 AM, HotKey said:

Official reprints of UF4. Only the barcode is a little different and the small Marvel logo has a red background instead of a white one. Very easy to fool people that dont know about it and even some who do. Very harmful to new collectors in the market.

This right here.  There is a picture floating around that shows CGC has already slabbed a UF4 reprint and mislabeled it as the real deal.  If it can fool a professional grader, imagine how many amateur collectors / kids / even people like me that can be fooled. The difference is too miniscule, I don't understand why it would be so hard to put the word 'reprint" in the UPC barcode area.  

I remember a year or so ago when I got fooled by a X-Men 28 1st Banshee JC Penny print thinking I hit the jackpot in a box of books.  Dang JC Penny!!

[universal soldier]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:59 AM, Wolverinex said:

Other than the legal issues, what's stopping someone from reprinting a complete duplicate of UF4?   And would we be able to tell it apart from a real copy?

Nothing really but you can say that about any book, not just UF4. There have been a number of counterfeit comics over the years, some better than others. I would think it would depend on the sophistication of the copy and the rarity of the book. UF4 is not a rare book so likely not the same as Cerebus 1 or other similar examples.

[WolverineX]

On 10/8/2021 at 11:26 AM, universal soldier said:

Nothing really but you can say that about any book, not just UF4. There have been a number of counterfeit comics over the years, some better than others. I would think it would depend on the sophistication of the copy and the rarity of the book. UF4 is not a rare book so likely not the same as Cerebus 1 or other similar examples.

Interesting, I think if somebody had the means to make facsimiles, it would be easy to make a duplicate of UF4....cerebus 1 not so much since it wasn't a standard modern book

[MattTheDuck]

On 10/8/2021 at 6:59 AM, Wolverinex said:

Other than the legal issues, what's stopping someone from reprinting a complete duplicate of UF4?   And would we be able to tell it apart from a real copy?

Years ago I worked and was friends with a guy who owned a big offset printing operation.  He has unfortunately passed away, but I would love to be able to ask him about this.  There are no doubt others, but I suspect the key problem you would face in making a completely untraceable counterfeit copy of, say, Fantastic Four #1 would be acquiring ink and especially paper that would be period-identical to the trained eye/microscope.

[Qalyar]

These are reprints by the publisher. They're not really any different than any other reprint edition of any other book over the decades. Yes, CGC ed their identification of one copy of the UF4 reprint, and yes, that slab will be a problem forever, but in general there's no real concern with these books.

The people who are creating straight-up fabrications of out-of-copyright (well, usually...) books are a bigger problem. One such creator advertises here periodically, and I'm a strong believer than CGC should amend their forum TOS to ban advertising of what are, ethically if not legally, counterfeit comics.

[WolverineX]

On 10/8/2021 at 11:41 AM, MattTheDuck said:

Years ago I worked and was friends with a guy who owned a big offset printing operation.  He has unfortunately passed away, but I would love to be able to ask him about this.  There are no doubt others, but I suspect the key problem you would face in making a completely untraceable counterfeit copy of, say, Fantastic Four #1 would be acquiring ink and especially paper that would be period-identical to the trained eye/microscope.

I mean, that would be really interesting because you wouldn't counterfeit FF1... that's too difficult and a pain.  You would target hot Moderns;  UF4, it's variants, those insane Scott Campbell variants, Ditko ASM 700 variant, BA 12, etc... it would be easy to get the paper for those...

[WolverineX]

Here's an article talking about how it's impossible to counterfeit older books, Cerebus 1, TMNT1

 

https://www.fraud-magazine.com/article.aspx?id=4295010490

 

However, he doesn't really talk about modern books....  

[shadroch]

On 10/8/2021 at 8:50 AM, Wolverinex said:

Here's an article talking about how it's impossible to counterfeit older books, Cerebus 1, TMNT1

 

https://www.fraud-magazine.com/article.aspx?id=4295010490

 

However, he doesn't really talk about modern books....  

CGC considers both of those books to be moderns.