Matt Baker’s Wonder Woman & Supergirl 0

[bronze johnny]

I once asked what Mac Raboy’s Superman would look like if he had drawn the Man of Steel in a comic book. In that spirit, I’ve wondered what Matt Baker would have done with Wonder Woman and Supergirl - the latter was introduced several months before Baker passed away. There’s no question as to Baker’s incredible talent as an artist and other than Jack Kamen, the greatest Good Girl Artist in the history of the medium. Only now are a number of collectors beginning to learn just how incredible Baker was at drawing women.
Another interesting fact is that Baker shares a place along side artists like Biro in that their art is synonymous with the publisher they worked for. Think Lev Gleason and Biro’s art immediately comes to mind. The same is true for St. John and Baker’s art. Baker’s greatest period as an artist occurred while working for St. John Publication and Biro’s art defines Lev Gleason Publication.

Baker also was the first African-American artist to achieve a level of artistic success never before experienced by those who came before him. Baker’s influence is seen in those who came later including the legendary Dave Stevens, and today among artists like Adam Hughes.

Still, with the incredible work Baker did before his time at St. John Publication and the corpus of his art working on the westerns, romance, and war comics for Archer St. John, he never got to draw the most popular super-heroines probably because he passed away at a young age. The DC Silver Age had begun in 1956 with revamped superheroes and new concepts. Unfortunately, Baker was ill by the time the Flash got his own comic book and Supergirl was introduced in 1959. Interestingly, Raboy passed away at a relatively young age of 53, which might also be a reason for his never giving us Superman. These brilliant artists never got to draw the most significant superheroes of their time and I imagine their work on them would be amazing.

Since this thread is focused on Baker, I ask this question:

Imagine what Matt Baker’s Wonder Woman and Supergirl would look like?

-John

Edited October 16, 2021 by bronze johnny

[jimbo_7071]

On 10/16/2021 at 4:12 PM, bronze johnny said:

I once asked what Mac Raboy’s Superman would look like if he had drawn the Man of Steel in a comic book. In that spirit, I’ve wondered what Matt Baker would have done with Wonder Woman and Supergirl - the latter was introduced several months before Baker passed away. There’s no question as to Baker’s incredible talent as an artist and other than Jack Kamen, the greatest Good Girl Artist in the history of the medium. Only now are a number of collectors beginning to learn just how incredible Baker was at drawing women.
Another interesting fact is that Baker shares a place along side artists like Biro in that their art is synonymous with the publisher they worked for. Think Lev Gleason and Biro’s art immediately comes to mind. The same is true for St. John and Baker’s art. Baker’s greatest period as an artist occurred while working for St. John Publication and Biro’s art defines Lev Gleason Publication.

Baker also was the first African-American artist to achieve a level of artistic success never before experienced by those who came before him. Baker’s influence is seen in those who came later including the legendary Dave Stevens, and today among artists like Adam Hughes.

Still, with the incredible work Baker did before his time at St. John Publication and the corpus of his art working on the westerns, romance, and war comics for Archer St. John, he never got to draw the most popular super-heroines probably because he passed away at a young age. The DC Silver Age had begun in 1956 with revamped superheroes and new concepts. Unfortunately, Baker was ill by the time the Flash got his own comic book and Supergirl was introduced in 1959. Interestingly, Raboy passed away at a relatively young age of 53, which might also be a reason for his never giving us Superman. These brilliant artists never got to draw the most significant superheroes of their time and I imagine their work on them would be amazing.

Since this thread is focused on Baker, I ask this question:

Imagine what Matt Baker’s Wonder Woman and Supergirl would look like?

-John

"Other than Jack Kamen"? I personally don't find Kamen's GGA to be particularly good. There are quite a few artists whose work I prefer.

Edited October 17, 2021 by jimbo_7071
Correcting. the *spoon* autocorrect.

[bronze johnny]

On 10/16/2021 at 5:47 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

"Other than Jack Kamen"? I personally don't find Kamen's GGA to particularly could. There are quite a few artists whose work I prefer.

Ultimately, comes down to preferences  where art is concerned. Respect your position but Kamen’s Good Girl Art covers are among the greatest ever produced. 

[jimbo_7071]

On 10/16/2021 at 6:54 PM, bronze johnny said:

Ultimately, comes down to preferences  where art is concerned. Respect your position but Kamen’s Good Girl Art covers are among the greatest ever produced. 

Of course I respect your opinion—as I respect all differing opinions—but even among the other artists who drew for EC (as Kamen occasionally did), Al Feldstein, Wally Wood, and Graham Ingels were all several orders of magnitude better at producing GGA than Kamen.

Dan Zolnerowich, Alex Schomburg, and Maurice Whitman all produced better GGA than Kamen ever thought about producing.

Kamen wouldn't even make my top twenty. His female figures only had two facial expressions:

1) angrily constipated and 2) a look of surprise and confusion as if someone had just poked them in the butthole with popsicle.

Edited October 16, 2021 by jimbo_7071

[BakerFanOne]

On 10/16/2021 at 4:08 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Of course I respect you opinion—as I respect all differing opinions—but even among the other artists who drew for EC (as Kamen occasionally did), Al Feldstein, Wally Wood, and Graham Ingels were all several orders of magnitude better at producing GGA than Kamen.

Dan Zolnerowich, Alex Schomburg, and Maurice Whitman all produced better GGA than Kamen ever thought about producing.

Kamen wouldn't even make my top twenty. His female figures only had two facial expressions:

1) angrily constipated and 2) a look of surprise and confusion as if someone had just poked them in the butthole with popsicle.

All great artists mentioned above but I also rank Kamen among the top 5 good girl artists.  Some of my Kamen favorites include:

All Top 10

Blue Beetle 49, 54

Zoot 11

I also believe he did the Phantom Lady 16 cover which is also one of my favorites. 

But he did have a stiffness in some of his covers and he certainly didn't have the natural free-flowing artistry of a Baker for sure.

[bronze johnny]

On 10/16/2021 at 7:08 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Of course I respect you opinion—as I respect all differing opinions—but even among the other artists who drew for EC (as Kamen occasionally did), Al Feldstein, Wally Wood, and Graham Ingels were all several orders of magnitude better at producing GGA than Kamen.

Dan Zolnerowich, Alex Schomburg, and Maurice Whitman all produced better GGA than Kamen ever thought about producing.

Kamen wouldn't even make my top twenty. His female figures only had two facial expressions:

1) angrily constipated and 2) a look of surprise and confusion as if someone had just poked them in the butthole with popsicle.

I get you don’t like Kamen’s art. Love the artists you list and would add Lubbers and Doolin. Can we focus on the topic at hand?

Baker is the guy for this thread

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by bronze johnny

[MB1952]

Baker’s DC Wonder Woman will look sexy and beautiful.
 

[eschnit]

On 10/16/2021 at 3:12 PM, bronze johnny said:

I once asked what Mac Raboy’s Superman would look like if he had drawn the Man of Steel in a comic book. In that spirit, I’ve wondered what Matt Baker would have done with Wonder Woman and Supergirl - the latter was introduced several months before Baker passed away. There’s no question as to Baker’s incredible talent as an artist and other than Jack Kamen, the greatest Good Girl Artist in the history of the medium. Only now are a number of collectors beginning to learn just how incredible Baker was at drawing women.
Another interesting fact is that Baker shares a place along side artists like Biro in that their art is synonymous with the publisher they worked for. Think Lev Gleason and Biro’s art immediately comes to mind. The same is true for St. John and Baker’s art. Baker’s greatest period as an artist occurred while working for St. John Publication and Biro’s art defines Lev Gleason Publication.

Baker also was the first African-American artist to achieve a level of artistic success never before experienced by those who came before him. Baker’s influence is seen in those who came later including the legendary Dave Stevens, and today among artists like Adam Hughes.

Still, with the incredible work Baker did before his time at St. John Publication and the corpus of his art working on the westerns, romance, and war comics for Archer St. John, he never got to draw the most popular super-heroines probably because he passed away at a young age. The DC Silver Age had begun in 1956 with revamped superheroes and new concepts. Unfortunately, Baker was ill by the time the Flash got his own comic book and Supergirl was introduced in 1959. Interestingly, Raboy passed away at a relatively young age of 53, which might also be a reason for his never giving us Superman. These brilliant artists never got to draw the most significant superheroes of their time and I imagine their work on them would be amazing.

Since this thread is focused on Baker, I ask this question:

Imagine what Matt Baker’s Wonder Woman and Supergirl would look like?

-John

Bro, you lost me with one comment.  Baker was not the Greatest Good Girl Artist in the history of the medium other than Jack Kamen.  He was better than Jack Kamen.  Jack Kamen would have told you he was better than Jack Kamen.   You’re not wondering how Jack Kamen would have drawn Wonder Woman or Supergirl.  That’s not an accident.  Nobody collects Kamen.  Baker is the preeminent dude.  Not the other way around.

Edited October 17, 2021 by eschnit

[eschnit]

On 10/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Of course I respect your opinion—as I respect all differing opinions—but even among the other artists who drew for EC (as Kamen occasionally did), Al Feldstein, Wally Wood, and Graham Ingels were all several orders of magnitude better at producing GGA than Kamen.

Dan Zolnerowich, Alex Schomburg, and Maurice Whitman all produced better GGA than Kamen ever thought about producing.

Kamen wouldn't even make my top twenty. His female figures only had two facial expressions:

1) angrily constipated and 2) a look of surprise and confusion as if someone had just poked them in the butthole with popsicle.

I agree

[eschnit]

Of note, the covers HG Peter did in the early 40s of Wonder Woman were anything but attractive.  Something changed in the late 40s   About 5 years after she was introduced, she was being drawn much better in every aspect.  I guess a lot changed during that time.  The war had ended among other things.  There were damsels in distress drawn “pretty” among many publishers, Fiction House being an obvious one.  Pulps too.  Comment from an earlier post, Tiger Girl is a good example of a well drawn woman, not in distress, and likely similar to what Baker would have done with Wonder Woman or perhaps Supergirl (blonde).  Can’t remember her name, but Seven Seas Island girl and Phantom Lady are good examples of what we might have expected from Baker with Wonder Woman.  She was drawn well  consistently by 1950.  Catwoman suffered the same.  It took some time before she was drawn well for whatever reason.  

[bronze johnny]

On 10/16/2021 at 11:02 PM, eschnit said:

Bro, you lost me with one comment.  Baker was not the Greatest Good Girl Artist in the history of the medium other than Jack Kamen.  He was better than Jack Kamen.  Jack Kamen would have told you he was better than Jack Kamen.   You’re not wondering how Jack Kamen would have drawn Wonder Woman or Supergirl.  That’s not an accident.  Nobody collects Kamen.  Baker is the preeminent dude.  Not the other way around.

Sorry if I lost you. Baker and Kamen were contemporaries. I was thinking of Brenda Starr 14, Kamen’s classic Jo Jo Comics and Blue Beetle covers when writing that. Agree with you that Baker is the preeminent dude and he’s what this thread is about. 

 

[eschnit]

On 10/16/2021 at 10:23 PM, bronze johnny said:

Sorry if I lost you. Baker and Kamen were contemporaries. I was thinking of Brenda Starr 14, Kamen’s classic Jo Jo Comics and Blue Beetle covers when writing that. Agree with you that Baker is the preeminent dude and he’s what this thread is about. 

 

I get it.  I was needling a little, didn’t take the time to read that others had already.  I don’t think you even intended it exactly as it’s written.  Kamen was prolific.  And yeah, they knew each other.  Much of their art is similar enough to where they can be mistaken for the other.  CGC gets their slabs wrong consistently, attributing certain covers to one when it’s the other.  And in some cases, nobody knows which of the two it was.  To your point, much of Baker’s best was the St. John books in the early 50s.  The cover that I’m most curious about is Jo-Jo 25.  If I didn’t know the history and was purely guessing based on other work, I would guess Phantom Lady 17 was Jack Kamen and Jo-Jo 25 Baker.  Kamen was very good.  Thanks for the thread.

[N e r V]

In another reality if Baker had lived a few more decades I doubt he would have remained in mainstream comics. I think he probably would have followed a path more along the lines of a Jack Cole and produce good girl art for Playboy and others. Probably a good shot as a regular in commercial art with comics in his rear view mirror. People like Baker died relatively early in their careers with their art having a good growth yet to come

[KCOComics]

I love the concept. Its kind of like when Romita Sr took over Spidey from Ditko.  He had that romance background and slowly the characters became younger, sleeker and more attractive.  

Honestly,  Baker would have been amazing in the 60s and it's a shame we never got to see it.  It's hard to think of his style being applied to 60s super heros,  but I tend to think the greats could adjust. 

[bronze johnny]

On 10/16/2021 at 11:56 PM, N e r V said:

In another reality if Baker had lived a few more decades I doubt he would have remained in mainstream comics. I think he probably would have followed a path more along the lines of a Jack Cole and produce good girl art for Playboy and others. Probably a good shot as a regular in commercial art with comics in his rear view mirror. People like Baker died relatively early in their careers with their art having a good growth yet to come

Good point about Baker leaving comics that immediately reminds me of Kintsler, another incredible artist who shifted away from comics to portrait art when the Silver Age began. Kintsler was one of the greatest artists who’s least talked about. Kintsler’s good girl art is limited to his work in White Princess of the Jungle and Realistic Romances is another “what if he had drawn the great superheroes? 

Edited October 17, 2021 by bronze johnny

[MB1952]

On 10/17/2021 at 12:39 AM, KCOComics said:

I love the concept. Its kind of like when Romita Sr took over Spidey from Ditko.  He had that romance background and slowly the characters became younger, sleeker and more attractive.  

Honestly,  Baker would have been amazing in the 60s and it's a shame we never got to see it.  It's hard to think of his style being applied to 60s super heros,  but I tend to think the greats could adjust. 

Matt Baker was working for Atlas mid to late 50’s, just imagine Baker being part of the Marvel Bullpen in 1961. Baker was so talented that for sure would have fit in perfect with super-heroes his action panels in those fiction house stories were nicely done. 

[bronze johnny]

It’s a modern comic drawn by Hughes, an artist who I believe has been influenced by Baker’s art. Hughes’ cover can provide some imaginary insight into what a Baker Wonder Woman might have look liked- especially  when side by side with a rendition of the “classic version.”

Edited October 21, 2021 by bronze johnny