EsquireComics Willing To Provide The Same Guaranty Offered By CGC

[rjpb]

Of course it's even less of a financial risk to collect imaginary OA.

[skybolt]

Of course it's even less of a financial risk to collect imaginary OA.

 

[Darthdiesel]

2) Regarding your policy, fine, whatever. But to be honest you come on these boards like you are a real dealer. The fact is that you haven't added any new books to your site in over two months and have less than 100 books unsold in inventory. Lots of board members have sold lmore books thru various sources (i.e. eBay, ComicLink, Pedigree Comics, etc) then you have over the past few months. You might sell a big book every now and then, but you continue to IMPLY that you are a big time factor in this market and I just don't see it at this time. Maybe one day, but not yet.

 

 

Ouch... emasculating...

[BassGMan]

Assuming Mark didn't find all his books in some basement,I would wager that the money he has spent over the last few years qualifies him as "big time".A few big time buyers can influence a dealers way of thinking as easily as his so-called peers.

 

Mark is absolutely a big time collector, no question.

 

I'm just saying that most of his statements seem to be taken from a "dealers point of view" and I don't put him in that category quite yet.

 

Once again, who else (besides Mark), thinks it's a BAD THING that dealers such as ComicLink, Metro, PCMint, etc will guaranty any CGC book bought from them.

I think that is a great thing. Of course they are doing it to protect their business, so what? The buyer has additional assurances, which is a GOOD THING!!!

 

It's all semantics and point of view. Who really cares who wants to speak from what point of view? I sell a dozen or so books on Ebay a week and if I want to speak "as a dealer" then I will. If I had a website where I was selling books, and I sold one a month, I would still speak "as a dealer" if I wanted to. If you sell houses but have not sold one in the last few months, are you now unable to speak as a real estate agent? If you are an attorney but have no clients, can you not speak with an attorney's point of view? Geez, give me a break. The details at which some of us are so picky about is unreal. Relax, that's all I can say. I thoroughly enjoys Mark's well thought out and highly detailed posts. And when I read them I really don't care if he is speaking as a collector, dealer, attorney, fanboy or whatever.

[sfilosa]

The details at which some of us are so picky about is unreal. Relax, that's all I can say. I thoroughly enjoys Mark's well thought out and highly detailed posts. And when I read them I really don't care if he is speaking as a collector, dealer, attorney, fanboy or whatever.

 

My problem is that he constantly criticizes other dealers for their guaranty of CGC books. Then states that he won't guaranty CGC, and that it's their responsiblity.

 

How about looking at that as a collector who wants whatever guaranty they can get. And if Mark doesn't want to guaranty CGC books, fine.

 

ONCE AGAIN, why does he have to criticizes well establish dealers who want to assure their customer base, that they would get what they pay for (i.e. an unrestored CGC graded book).

[The Less Blob]

I guarantee that I am not selling any books trimmed by Jason Ewert.

 

seriously, if he had trimmed any of the books I have up he should get a new lazer trimmer, because it ain't working!

[esquirecomics]

think you are 'spot on' Mark in clarifing the flaws in CGC rules and policies. You are clearly an asset to the hobby. If I were you Id ignore guys like sfilosa who are clearly missing the point of your post. There are/ and always will be 'apologists' for questionable behaviour. And lastly,...not once have I construed any of your posts as implying you are a 'big time factor'.....thats merely a cheap shot,..imho.

 

KK

 

That said,..you gotta start buying OA : )

 

2) Regarding your policy, fine, whatever. But to be honest you come on these boards like you are a real dealer. The fact is that you haven't added any new books to your site in over two months and have less than 100 books unsold in inventory. Lots of board members have sold lmore books thru various sources (i.e. eBay, ComicLink, Pedigree Comics, etc) then you have over the past few months. You might sell a big book every now and then, but you continue to IMPLY that you are a big time factor in this market and I just don't see it at this time. Maybe one day, but not yet.

 

3) Good luck with your site, but I do check it once a week and see nothing happening.

 

**

 

Not the way I see it. Mark has stated many times "why should dealers guaranty CGC books", yet I've never heard anyone else think this is a bad policy. As oppose to thinking like a collector who wants as much guaranties from as many sources as possible, he seems to be thinking like a dealer.

 

Steve, I must confess I do not see where you are coming from. I cannot help that you personally believe I have implied I am a "big time factor in this market". I do not control your thought patterns. If you want to point out to me specific instances where somehow I have led you to believe this, then please do. But I can certainly tell you that I have no aspirations or feel desires to be a "big time factor in this market." My statements are what they are. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Nor can I help it if you don't see me as a "real dealer". You say tomato (accent one way) and I say tomato (accent the other way). Frankly, I am not sure why it really matters but let's review what qualifications I have:

 

* I sold as a comic book dealer every month for approximately 8-12 months at a fairly prominent Long Island comic book show in 1984-85;

 

* I sold as a comic book dealer at the largest Albany, New York comic book show in 1990;

 

* I have two full page ads in the current OS Guide as a comic book dealer, and will have the same in next year's edition;

 

* I have a montly advertisement notice in CBG as a comic book dealer for one year;

 

* I publicly sold books as a comic dealer at tables at several Tyson Corner, VA shows, the 2004 and 2005 Baltimore Comic Con, the 2005 San Diego Comic Con and the May 2005 DC Comic Con;

 

* I sell occasionally through e-bay as a comic book dealer;

 

* I have, as far as I am concerned, one of the best comic book websites around.

 

What do you call me then? I have never claimed to be a full-time dealer. I am a part-time dealer and full-time collector and attorney. I do not rely on comic books sales for my livelihood.

 

You are absolutely correct that I have not added any books to the site for awhile. As you may know from my other posts, I have been a little busy with my law practice and testifying before Congress and not able to devote the time I would like to my comic book side business. I continue to sell books at whatever pace that takes place, and I take that money and I buy more books, often for my personal collection, which is exactly why I set up EsquireComics in the first place.

 

That said, I do very much appreciate the fact that you check my site for activity and I hope you purchase books from me. It is always a pleasure to sell books to somone who truly cares about them.

 

You say I constantly criticize other dealers? I don't believe that is true at all, and to the extent I have offered criticism, whether as a "dealer" or collector, of dealers, so what? So do many posters on these boards. And I have not criticized the dealers for offering a CGC guaranty. In fact, I openly praised and commended them for their decision. I criticized the impact of such a position and the message it sends by allowing CGC off the hook for their own activities. In fact, none of the dealers have said anything negative to me, and I talk with most of the them very frequently. One of them, in fact, asked that I review the posted "guaranty" and provide my comments privately.

 

In any event, you are missing the point of my post. On a micro level it is great for collectors that these dealers have offered this guarantee. But I am looking at this in a much broader, macro level, and I don't think this is a good thing at all for the community to be doing. I think all dealers should provide some level of guaranty when the issue is within their control. But CGC'd books are not within a dealer's control, and CGC should be providing the guarantee. That is my message.

 

Whether I am speaking as a "dealer" or as a collector, or both, I will let my words and actions speak for themselves and everyone can judge me and my message accordingly.

[ft88]

Gadzooks, your such a lawyer

[sfilosa]

In any event, you are missing the point of my post. On a micro level it is great for collectors that these dealers have offered this guarantee. But I am looking at this in a much broader, macro level, and I don't think this is a good thing at all for the community to be doing. I think all dealers should provide some level of guaranty when the issue is within their control. But CGC'd books are not within a dealer's control, and CGC should be providing the guarantee. That is my message.

 

This is where I disagree. You are basically implying that because some dealers are providing a guarantee on CGC books, that lets CGC of the hook. But as I have said, CGC never owned the book. They don't share in the profits of a book, and based on your argument, if CGC gave a clean bill of health on a Marvel Comics #1 in CGC 9.0 and it came out that a very devious, unique technique to trim books was used on that book, CGC who probably collected a $2,000 fee should come out of pocket $160,000. That might be enough to put them out of business because of one error where they might not have even been negligent. Please, that doesn't make sense.

 

I'm not saying the dealers should guarantee anything, but at least they are the ones making the large profit selling CGC books.

 

It also doesn't mean CGC shouldn't be doing everything they can to make sure they can spot the trimming next time and I still fault them for not releasing the serial numbers of JE's submissions (regardless of their policy).

[jkrk]

This is where I disagree. You are basically implying that because some dealers are providing a guarantee on CGC books, that lets CGC of the hook. But as I have said, CGC never owned the book. They don't share in the profits of a book, and based on your argument, if CGC gave a clean bill of health on a Marvel Comics #1 in CGC 9.0 and it came out that a very devious, unique technique to trim books was used on that book, CGC who probably collected a $2,000 fee should come out of pocket $160,000. That might be enough to put them out of business because of one error where they might not have even been negligent. Please, that doesn't make sense.

 

 

I skimmed most of this post due to a lack of time but if buyers want the true CGC gruarentee including a book buyback for missing restoration then we need a few Actuaries on the payroll. The fees CGC is charging wouldn't come close to cover their risk. I beieve Steve mentioned that technology will always give indviduals the ability to restore a book undetected by CGC. CGC , hopefully will discover the fraud in a short period of time which would help to minimize the damage. The frauds shouldn't occur on a regular basis but from time to time will occur. A CGC restoration detection is better than buying raw but how many books flow through the system mislabeled is unkown. Many of us would know how to adjust if we can get a handle on the problem.

[esquirecomics]

This is where I disagree. You are basically implying that because some dealers are providing a guarantee on CGC books, that lets CGC of the hook. But as I have said, CGC never owned the book. They don't share in the profits of a book, and based on your argument, if CGC gave a clean bill of health on a Marvel Comics #1 in CGC 9.0 and it came out that a very devious, unique technique to trim books was used on that book, CGC who probably collected a $2,000 fee should come out of pocket $160,000. That might be enough to put them out of business because of one error where they might not have even been negligent. Please, that doesn't make sense.

 

 

I skimmed most of this post due to a lack of time but if buyers want the true CGC gruarentee including a book buyback for missing restoration then we need a few Actuaries on the payroll. The fees CGC is charging wouldn't come close to cover their risk. I beieve Steve mentioned that technology will always give indviduals the ability to restore a book undetected by CGC. CGC , hopefully will discover the fraud in a short period of time which would help to minimize the damage. The frauds shouldn't occur on a regular basis but from time to time will occur. A CGC restoration detection is better than buying raw but how many books flow through the system mislabeled is unkown. Many of us would know how to adjust if we can get a handle on the problem.

 

This is where insurance comes in handy.

 

Additionally, CGC could, for example, easily include a disclaimer/exception that where a submitter intentionally tries to deceive them with submissions of restored books, then the guarantee is waived if they don't catch the new twist of restoration. The burden would be on CGC to demonstrate what took place which clearly can be done as the Ewert scandal reveals when a pattern exists.

 

In any event the bottom line is why should sellers bail out CGC for its negligence?

[BronzeBruce13]

Also… regardless of the stated "non-guaranty" by CGC haven't they behaved thus far as if the guaranty was real? Not sure, but I believe CGC "bought back" the Bats 11 and a few others (and one restored book in a universal slab accidentally… recently)? In addition, haven't they worked with Brulato to ensure that any potentially discoverd Brulato-Ewert book found with resto will be made good on. I'm betting Tom's not expected to eat whatever that amount is himself no more than the dealers who offered an additional guranty will pay out of pocket.

 

That is why I said this:

 

CGC should be the entity that steps up to the plate and makes such a pledge with respect to its restoration detection service. It should do so aggressively and proactively, rather than defensively and selectively when a scandal arises.

 

I see… I beleive SB has stated (maybe not in print) that CGC would buy back any books they clearly miss. I thought it was during the Bats 11 incident… not sure. I'm pretty sure he said something to this effect to me on the phone although I'm not quoting him. I'm far more impressed with CGC's actions in this regard rather than their stated policy with escape route. I'm still of the opinion that they don't make a bigger deal of announcing the policy in case of a disaster that would potentially cripple the business. I don't think you will find anyone "stuck' with a book CGC missed. There isn't one yet that I know of. For me, that is comforting and helps maintain my confidence in the company. If they didn't, that would be another story.

[arexcrooke]

My problem is that he constantly criticizes other dealers for their guaranty of CGC books. Then states that he won't guaranty CGC, and that it's their responsiblity.

Why should other dealers have to guarantee something that is supposed to be guaranteed by CGC?

Oh thats right, cause CGC's guarantee is worth about as much as poop in a box.

[esquirecomics]

Also… regardless of the stated "non-guaranty" by CGC haven't they behaved thus far as if the guaranty was real? Not sure, but I believe CGC "bought back" the Bats 11 and a few others (and one restored book in a universal slab accidentally… recently)? In addition, haven't they worked with Brulato to ensure that any potentially discoverd Brulato-Ewert book found with resto will be made good on. I'm betting Tom's not expected to eat whatever that amount is himself no more than the dealers who offered an additional guranty will pay out of pocket.

 

That is why I said this:

 

CGC should be the entity that steps up to the plate and makes such a pledge with respect to its restoration detection service. It should do so aggressively and proactively, rather than defensively and selectively when a scandal arises.

 

I see… I beleive SB has stated (maybe not in print) that CGC would buy back any books they clearly miss. I thought it was during the Bats 11 incident… not sure. I'm pretty sure he said something to this effect to me on the phone although I'm not quoting him. I'm far more impressed with CGC's actions in this regard rather than their stated policy with escape route. I'm still of the opinion that they don't make a bigger deal of announcing the policy in case of a disaster that would potentially cripple to business. I don't think you will find anyone "stuck' with a book CGC missed. There isn't one yet that I know of. For me, that is comforting and helps maintain my confidence in the company. If they didn't, that would be another story.

 

I have a feeling that Steve is far more confident in his and Haspell's ability to detect restoration, so much so I wouldn't doubt he made a statement such as you recall, than CGC is as a company to publicly support its own people. If this is the case, it is regretable and disappointing to say the least.

[trevorlsmith]

I beleive SB has stated (maybe not in print) that CGC would buy back any books they clearly miss.

 

I may be wrong, but I remember Steve stating, in connection with the Ewert situation, that cgc would buy back any ewert trimmed books in blue labels at either fair market value or actual cost to the buyer, at cgc's discretion.

 

However, I agree with the statement where you suggest that action is more importan than promises. If cgc buys back all missed resto books over the course of their hopefully infinite existence, then I could care less how carefully they word their posts/public statements....

[jkrk]

 

This is where insurance comes in handy.

 

Additionally, CGC could, for example, easily include a disclaimer/exception that where a submitter intentionally tries to deceive them with submissions of restored books, then the guarantee is waived if they don't catch the new twist of restoration. The burden would be on CGC to demonstrate what took place which clearly can be done as the Ewert scandal reveals when a pattern exists.

 

In any event the bottom line is why should sellers bail out CGC for its negligence?

 

--------------------

 

1)I love the idea of insurance but the pricing would prove prohibitive.

2)Is it your thought that CGC is dishonest or just negligent?

3)Are you saying that the missed EWERT trimming was "a new twist" which won't be covered by insurance or negligence by CGC which will?

4)You probably will need a tribunal to review each and every book in question.

 

My view is that the buyers risk is with the "new tricks" of restoration. My guess is that negligence is not much of a problem.

 

Sellers are not bailing out CGC. It's a phony. They hope by putting up a strong front they are telling the buyers the missed restoration problem isn't a big deal. Hey, they're putting their own money on the line. Right? The truth is that the guarentee only works if a few books are involved. If a large amount of restoration was missed two events will occur:

1)CGC will revise it's policy and no longer call trimming a restoration if a minimal amount is cut. No claims will be paid. The books will remain in blue labels.

2)If the claims are too large the dealers will fold their hand and walk away. They will carefully balance the cost of the payment versus their future prospects.

 

In addition: I suspect that CGC will reimburse dealers for the books they bought back. That's just speculation on my part.

[shadroch]

When selling or buying a car,people use CARFAX,a service that conducts data-base searches to determine the cars true history.

If Carfax misses an important item,they buy the car off the original buyer. Although they never owned the car,they,as the certification company,stand by their service.they screw up,they pay for it.

That is what I would like CGC to start to do.

[action1kid]

Do you think they have the resources to do that?

[ComicSupply]

Oh thats right, cause CGC's guarantee is worth about as much as poop in a box.

 

What color?

[Darthdiesel]

Oh thats right, cause CGC's guarantee is worth about as much as poop in a box.

 

What color?

 

Green label poop - Notes: corn kernels removed, first turd