• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

What's a dealer to do?

Started by blazingbob,

84 posts in this topic

all4comics

all4comics

Posted
Posted
Raw prices are increasing, overgrading of raw is more rampant.

 

CGC is grading tighter for some of us, looser for others.

 

Turnaround times are long so cash flow gets strained.

 

Risk/reward ratios based on CGC multiple compression makes the decision of what to get graded that much harder.

 

No new pre-65 collections puts pressure on "dealers" to manufacture grades to sell to the 9.4+ label junkie. Post 66 collections contain much of the same issues already with large CGC populations. Unless it's 9.4 or better what do you do with those 9.0's and 9.2's? God forbid they are lower than that unless they are #1's. Press them? Try as hard as you can to convince a label buyer that the book is really nice? Throw in the "Barely a 9.0/definitely a 9.0/really close to a 9.2" sales pitch? When does a seller cross the line? Throw as many copies in their face with different grades to educate them (Seems expensive from a business perspective)?

 

Sell them raw? Where? Ebay - Nope, Ebay factors a 25% overgrading factor.

Convention - Ok, but be prepared for the "Why didn't you get it graded question". Unless it's graded it must be restored or overgraded. Heritage - why, so they can buy them? Website - Unless you have steady customers who know your grading skill its your word against the buyers.

 

Ask me again why I want to be a dealer in this market? Ask me why I want to have books graded?

 

It's damned if I do, damned if I don't.

 

 

I wish I had your problem... All those increadible comics for sale hail.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
goldust40

goldust40

Posted
Posted
Raw prices are increasing, overgrading of raw is more rampant.

 

CGC is grading tighter for some of us, looser for others.

 

Turnaround times are long so cash flow gets strained.

 

Risk/reward ratios based on CGC multiple compression makes the decision of what to get graded that much harder.

 

No new pre-65 collections puts pressure on "dealers" to manufacture grades to sell to the 9.4+ label junkie. Post 66 collections contain much of the same issues already with large CGC populations. Unless it's 9.4 or better what do you do with those 9.0's and 9.2's? God forbid they are lower than that unless they are #1's. Press them? Try as hard as you can to convince a label buyer that the book is really nice? Throw in the "Barely a 9.0/definitely a 9.0/really close to a 9.2" sales pitch? When does a seller cross the line? Throw as many copies in their face with different grades to educate them (Seems expensive from a business perspective)?

 

Sell them raw? Where? Ebay - Nope, Ebay factors a 25% overgrading factor.

Convention - Ok, but be prepared for the "Why didn't you get it graded question". Unless it's graded it must be restored or overgraded. Heritage - why, so they can buy them? Website - Unless you have steady customers who know your grading skill its your word against the buyers.

 

Ask me again why I want to be a dealer in this market? Ask me why I want to have books graded?

 

It's damned if I do, damned if I don't.

 

 

I wish I had your problem... All those increadible comics for sale hail.gif

 

Ditto. C'mon Bob, chin up!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted

"Nope, it would under 50% for your entire "stock" of books, now wouldn't it..???"

 

If I could sell my entire collection for 45% of guide, heck, 40%, I would do that in a heartbeart! That would beat selling them individually for 50-75% of guide on ebay and all that work. Seriously, at that rate I'm going it'll take me 5 years to list this stuff.

 

I try to pay as little as possible, so why shouldn't dealers? Yes, pre-ebay many were very scuzzy about the whole buying process (my friend who owned a shop, no matter what was being offered to him, would almost always play the same "those don't sell/i have a ton of those already" song and dance when people tried to sell him stuff, and I'm sure many still are trying the same game, but other than a few bigshots, so much of the profit has been sucked out of it that they aren't getting nearly as much of a mark-up as they used to. my friend robbed people who sold to him, but he really wasn't getting rich off this. If he was clearing $60K a year (with no vacation, health insurance, etc.) he was lucky and he lived in Manhattan, so a lot of that went to living expenses.

 

Plus, this isn't 1986 or even 1993, you don't need to sell your stuff to a dealer (or buy a $200 table at a show)! If you think they're trying to rip you off, list your stuff on ebay! WHO CARES what a dealer (or shop owner) would offer me for my stuff? I'm not a clueless person emptying out my closet. The only time I've ever dealt with a dealer was trading stuff. (Of course, sometimes shop owners buy comics from me on ebay. I can only imagine what they're re-selling them for!)

 

This is capitalism and has little to do with comic dealers, this is how any collectible market works. Dealers try to pay very little and mark things up as much as they can.

 

Heck, when my friend closed up his shop he sold me a lot of vintage stuff for 10-15% of guide. He couldn't store the stuff and was so ticked off with comics that he wanted to do other stuff on ebay. I'm certainly happy to try and sell it for a lot more than that! Am I a bad person?

 

I don't feel sorry for dealers having trouble getting near guide for their stuff, that's life, just responding to your very angry post and somewhat naive view of the realities of the marketplace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted

For anyone that's never bought books from Bob, I would highly recommend doing so as his grading is as tight as it comes, and I've never had a problem related to communication or customer service.

 

That said, it's pretty obvious that the advent of the internet, ebay, and finally CGC has levelled the playing field between collector and dealer, such that collectors no longer have to sell their books to dealers. Up until the last few years, I suspect many dealers were able to make a killing buying raw high grade at "raw market prices" (either from collectors, other dealers, or even ebay), getting them slabbed, and raking in record profits (for example, buying raw, accurately graded NM 12/15/20/25-cent Spideys at full guide was still a killer flip for dealers in 2001-2004).

 

At this point however, it seems that the availability of raw, high-grade has been depleted, and the market for those books that are still available in raw, high-grade (post-1975) has diminished to the point where it's not worth slabbing them anyway.

 

Times, they have-a-changed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
originalisbest

originalisbest

Posted
Posted

ft88 - 100 books an hour? And named? Better than one a minute? You must be smoking something very potent, my friend, either that or your scanning system is potent and smoking.

 

DKB, I agree. I think Bob should have a big sale - but what a piker you are. 25% off a group? What about 50-75% a group? And then throw in that free shipping. Yessir, I predict Bob would have banner sales with that method.

 

FWIW, I've ordered all sorts of books from Bob (at a LITTLE off his marked price) but not too into haggling just for the sake of it. If the price he quotes me is acceptable, I buy, as I was interested in the book enough to ask - not being a reseller comes into it - I just want a book for my collection. With almost no other dealer can I feel as confident buying a book sans scan, I think I've chosen to return about 1 out of the last 12 books or so ordered thusly.

 

Put another way - as they used to like to say at GBV shows - "In Bob We Trust." smile.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
That Ron Dude

That Ron Dude

Posted
Posted

What I see successful dealers doing is taking books on consignment to minimize investment and loss, selling a wide array of conditions, becoming a middle man for CGC, diversifying into comic related books including books on art, selling toys, models, cards-- you know, selling original art, signature series, selling on Ebay when that is best, selling in the store when that is best, selling at conventions when that is best. One successful comic store (Dragon Lady Comics) changed locations and went into old paper-- old magazines and clipped ads mostly. Many stores HAVE gone under. It DOES seem like a tough business even when done wisely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
I need to ask the seller if he purchased the book from Tom Brulato/Jason Ewert and hope he's telling me the truth.

 

However, just to be safe and since I don't trust anybody today and I want to be safe from having a book show up in a thread I have to now reference the Jason Ewert database in case it's a "tainted issue".

 

Buying a raw book

 

I need to ask the seller if he purchased the book from Tom Brulato/Jason Ewert and hope he's telling me the truth.

 

However, just to be safe and since I don't trust anybody today and I want to be safe from having a book show up in a thread I have to now reference the Jason Ewert database in case it's a "tainted issue". I have to question if I think it's a Jason ewert "cracked out" issue. Curse that there aren't enough scans. Panic!

 

If there are any questions on the impact of the JE fiasco...you need look no further than these comments...

 

But my question is...how are you sure it's not a JE book even if it isn't in the database? It's a great resource but not even close to a complete picture of all tainted books. And since there isn't a complete index, and CGC is unwilling to provide that info, all slabs are suspect...

 

I'd be very leery of being a slab dealer in the current environment. And I think it'll get much worse before rebounding. If that's possible at this point...

 

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
But my question is...how are you sure it's not a JE book even if it isn't in the database? It's a great resource but not even close to a complete picture of all tainted books. And since there isn't a complete index, and CGC is unwilling to provide that info, all slabs are suspect...

Even if CGC provided all the info, the book could get cracked out and "laundered". All anyone can do is perform reasonable due diligence and if they`re reasonably satisfied, take the plunge. Going through life being afraid of every shadow is a hell of a way to live. And if you wait for 100% certainty on anything, you`re going to spending a lot of time waiting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
But my question is...how are you sure it's not a JE book even if it isn't in the database? It's a great resource but not even close to a complete picture of all tainted books. And since there isn't a complete index, and CGC is unwilling to provide that info, all slabs are suspect...

Even if CGC provided all the info, the book could get cracked out and "laundered". All anyone can do is perform reasonable due diligence and if they`re reasonably satisfied, take the plunge. Going through life being afraid of every shadow is a hell of a way to live. And if you wait for 100% certainty on anything, you`re going to spending a lot of time waiting.

 

Sure...but we are talking comics here. It's a disposible hobby...you can stop at any time...

 

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
But my question is...how are you sure it's not a JE book even if it isn't in the database? It's a great resource but not even close to a complete picture of all tainted books. And since there isn't a complete index, and CGC is unwilling to provide that info, all slabs are suspect...

Even if CGC provided all the info, the book could get cracked out and "laundered". All anyone can do is perform reasonable due diligence and if they`re reasonably satisfied, take the plunge. Going through life being afraid of every shadow is a hell of a way to live. And if you wait for 100% certainty on anything, you`re going to spending a lot of time waiting.

 

Sure...but we are talking comics here. It's a disposible hobby...you can stop at any time...

 

Jim

Sure, but giving up a hobby that one truly enjoys because of fear of every shadow is also a sad way to live. Decide whether you want to stay in or not, and if you want to stay in, then keep your wits about you but accept the fact that there are always risks, which can be mitigated but never completely avoided.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted

If a tree is trimmed in the forest and nobody saw it and nobody can really tell if it was without before and after pictures, can anyone really be certain it was trimmed?

 

this JE hysteria is getting absolutely ridiculous given that people HAVE been trimming books for more than 20 years (yes, there were books worth the effort back then and turning some VGs with rough edges into VF+ses was worthwhile even then). I'm sort of glad I don't own more than 20-30 silver age books that would even be worth the worry of worrying about trimming on.

 

so we're going to start trusting blue labels less than raw books now?

 

sorry, but i think you guys are trying to flush your hobby down the toilet. i don't know, maybe some people are trying to speed up a crash so they can get the books they want cheaper and then they won't give a rat's hiney about whether there has been undetectable trimming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
runningman

runningman

Posted
Posted

 

I'd be very leery of being a slab dealer in the current environment. And I think it'll get much worse before rebounding. If that's possible at this point...

 

Jim

 

 

Just have a look at ebay: lots and lots of bids on slabbed books. The people populating this forum are in the minority as far as collectors are concerned. Most have never heard of Ewert. Many forget this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing