CONSERVATION / PRESERVATION / RESTORATION

[The Brain]

Conservation: The preservation, reconditioning and restoration of works of art.

 

Preservation: To keep from harm, damage, danger, evil, so as to protect, to save.

 

Restoration: A putting or bringing back into a former, normal, or unimpaired state or condition.

 

 

So thru restoration, we have conservation, which in turn is preservation.

 

 

Is this right?

[Aman619]

doesnt matter. Lets not feel forced to parse the differences just cause CGC wants to make a buck on 2 of em!! Nah, make that all three!!!

 

Dont let CGC set the agenda for the hobby! They're here to grade the books. period.

[The Brain]

doesnt matter. Lets not feel forced to parse the differences just cause CGC wants to make a buck on 2 of em!! Nah, make that all three!!!

 

Dont let CGC set the agenda for the hobby! They're here to grade the books. period.

 

Thanks for the reply, I just thought that it would be fun to see if I too could play around with the meaning of words,

 

but instead went with what was in the dictionary instead. Still you have to ask what are we / they really trying to say??

[Aman619]

Im sure on any other day it would be a lot of fun and a lively therad discussion to talk about. To TALK about it as friends in a collectors community. But CGC now means to draw lines in the sand of the fabric of the hobby (ooooh I like that! messy but good) to their own agenda.

[FFB]

doesnt matter. Lets not feel forced to parse the differences just cause CGC wants to make a buck on 2 of em!! Nah, make that all three!!!

 

Dont let CGC set the agenda for the hobby! They're here to grade the books. period.

 

These distinctions are not something CGC created. These concepts all mean very different things to a professional conservator. Despite the backlash recently from people on the boards as a result of the conservation/restoration distinction discussed by Scott Schecter in his post on PCS, as I see it, by going into greater detail to differentiate between conservation (non-aesthetic treatment performed to lengthen the lifespan of an artifact) and restoration (aesthetic treatment performed to make an artifact look like it used to without any resulting increase in the lifespan of the artifact), CGC is imposing a more sophisticated framework (that is consistent with how professional paper conservators view things) on the way the comic book industry analyzes conservation and restoration. This increased level of sophistication strikes me as analogous to the gradual shift from the GD/FN/MT grading scale to the Overstreet ONE 100-point grading scale. And BOY was there some whining when the 100-point scale was created. People hate change.

 

There will be much hair-pulling and hand-wringing in the first couple of years as this new conservation/restoration framework becomes the industry standard. People will complain that it was all about appeasing dealers who want to sell restored books and that it was also about getting a ton of PLOD resubs. Who knows whether these are the real reasons or not. I don't believe that people become more likely to buy restored books just because they know more about restoration, nor do I think that owners of low-dollar amateurly restored silver and bronze age books will spend the money on a resub. I do believe, however, that if CGC sticks with this program, the new framework WILL eventually become the industry standard and all but a few people will lose the energy to b itch about it and will just learn the differences.

 

Should people actually find it more acceptable to buy (at whatever is the market price) a "conserved" book that has been deacidified and that has had a tear sealed than they would have if it had been stuck in a PLOD, then fine -- as long as the purchase decision is made as a result of the person becoming more educated about and comfortable with these various processes. I see no harm in a more educated buyer deciding that it's ok to spend his money on a tough-to-find book that has a tear seal or a centerfold that was reinforced at the staples with two half-inch pieces of Japan paper.

[shadroch]

If the guys in Sarasota want to open a conservation shop,great. The hobby could certainly use one.

If the guys in Sarasota want to open a real Italian restruant in their adopted hometown,great. Sarasota needs one.

But I'd rather have my books graded by an independent pizza maker than by someone with business ties to a resto lab.

[Aman619]

Sorry to read this willingness to accept CGCs new diretcion FFB. Youd be a powerful ally in trying to get CGC to stop now before they go any further. But I think you miss the core issue. ANy of us can get our comics "conserved" tomorrow w/o waithing for CGC/Friesen to set up shop. There are a handful of skilled and trained craftsmen ready to perform any kind of long term preservation you or anyone else wants.

 

No, the BIG issue is that CGC should not be involved in the process. THAT is what the fuss is all about, not the long-term merits of "conservation/preservation/restoration "

[Aman619]

If the guys in Sarasota want to open a conservation shop,great. The hobby could certainly use one.

If the guys in Sarasota want to open a real Italian restruant in their adopted hometown,great. Sarasota needs one.

But I'd rather have my books graded by an independent pizza maker than by someone with business ties to a resto lab.

 

now THATS amore!!

[FFB]

Sorry to read this willingness to accept CGCs new diretcion FFB. Youd be a powerful ally in trying to get CGC to stop now before they go any further. But I think you miss the core issue. ANy of us can get our comics "conserved" tomorrow w/o waithing for CGC/Friesen to set up shop. There are a handful of skilled and trained craftsmen ready to perform any kind of long term preservation you or anyone else wants.

 

No, the BIG issue is that CGC should not be involved in the process. THAT is what the fuss is all about, not the long-term merits of "conservation/preservation/restoration "

 

I don't think I've ever said anything other than that I think it is a huge conflict of interest for PCS to be under the CCG umbrella. I believe that I was one of the most vocal critics when the move was first announced. I'm all talked out about it now though, since I've said all I have to say on the topic and I do not believe that further griping will do any good. The LLC is formed and I am sure that Friesen is pressing away. I should add that I would have zero problem with this if PCS were Friesen's own, independent company.

 

What I am talking about above, though, has nothing to do with PCS. I am talking about CGC's decision to differentiate on its labels between the concepts of conservation (non-aesthetic repair designed to lengthen the lifespan of an artifact) and restoration (aesthetic repair tht does nothing to lengthen the lifespan of an artifact). I have always thought that it was unjust to have an otherwise beautiful golden age book with a small tear seal in the same ugly stigmatizing purple-labeled holder as a trimmed and color-touched silver age book. And ultimately, whether people want to buy conserved/restored books or not, I think it is good for people who spend a lot of money on comics to learn more about those processes.

[Ze-man]

Sorry to read this willingness to accept CGCs new diretcion FFB. Youd be a powerful ally in trying to get CGC to stop now before they go any further. But I think you miss the core issue. ANy of us can get our comics "conserved" tomorrow w/o waithing for CGC/Friesen to set up shop. There are a handful of skilled and trained craftsmen ready to perform any kind of long term preservation you or anyone else wants.

 

No, the BIG issue is that CGC should not be involved in the process. THAT is what the fuss is all about, not the long-term merits of "conservation/preservation/restoration "

 

 

I think all Scott was saying is that it IS going to happen. And in regards to resto/conso, plod or blue it will more then likely change the face of collecting as we currently know it to some degree.

As it plays out over time people will decide how it affects them, in not only how they collect, but what they collect.

 

As he said.. those left holding fast to the good ol days will be shrinking as time goes by.

And has nothing to do with what Scott thinks is right or wrong, but rather more what might be a legitimate scenario as to how this all might play out.

 

Wether we like it or not, and wether we are on board or not.

 

Ze-

[Ze-man]

Scott, I can see you were quite able to reply promptly.. ya beat my slow typing by 2 min... I just felt the need to answer incorrectly for you!.

 

Ze-

[FFB]

Scott, I can see you were quite able to reply promptly.. ya beat my slow typing by 2 min... I just felt the need to answer incorrectly for you!.

 

Ze-

 

Actually, Kenny, you were half right.

[Aman619]

Sorry to read this willingness to accept CGCs new diretcion FFB. Youd be a powerful ally in trying to get CGC to stop now before they go any further. But I think you miss the core issue. ANy of us can get our comics "conserved" tomorrow w/o waithing for CGC/Friesen to set up shop. There are a handful of skilled and trained craftsmen ready to perform any kind of long term preservation you or anyone else wants.

 

No, the BIG issue is that CGC should not be involved in the process. THAT is what the fuss is all about, not the long-term merits of "conservation/preservation/restoration "

 

I don't think I've ever said anything other than that I think it is a huge conflict of interest for PCS to be under the CCG umbrella. I believe that I was one of the most vocal critics when the move was first announced. I'm all talked out about it now though, since I've said all I have to say on the topic and I do not believe that further griping will do any good. The LLC is formed and I am sure that Friesen is pressing away. I should add that I would have zero problem with this if PCS were Friesen's own, independent company.

 

What I am talking about above, though, has nothing to do with PCS. I am talking about CGC's decision to differentiate on its labels between the concepts of conservation (non-aesthetic repair designed to lengthen the lifespan of an artifact) and restoration (aesthetic repair tht does nothing to lengthen the lifespan of an artifact). I have always thought that it was unjust to have an otherwise beautiful golden age book with a small tear seal in the same ugly stigmatizing purple-labeled holder as a trimmed and color-touched silver age book. And ultimately, whether people want to buy conserved/restored books or not, I think it is good for people who spend a lot of money on comics to learn more about those processes.

 

okay. I agree with all that. And Ill admit when we had a conversation about the removed resto on the Church Superman #1, Ive finally come around to see your point. As of now, th ebook HAS no resto and its an 8.0. I still think its history needs to forever be associated with the book, but, in reality, right now its an "unrestored" 8.0 since the retso was all removed and its graded in its current condition.

 

The hobby will eventually ned to define the differences between the 3, but IMO, not now, not if it augments CGCS determination to proceed.

[Red Hook]

If the guys in Sarasota want to open a conservation shop,great. The hobby could certainly use one.

If the guys in Sarasota want to open a real Italian restruant in their adopted hometown,great. Sarasota needs one.

But I'd rather have my books graded by an independent pizza maker than by someone with business ties to a resto lab.

 

That's the best, simplest and most direct post you've made all week! Excellent!

[Timulty]

CGC should just go to the blue label for everything. Have its notes section detail the nature and level of restoration. If it is marked none, then guess what the book sells for a premium. Not all that different from what happens now. No resto sells for more than resto. It is all in the details. CGC has an obligation to place as much information on that label, regarding the condition of the book. It is the only way CGC can keep from an appearance of conflict.