My Crummy Year 0

[Rick2you2]

So many of you have posted about great finds, I was wondering if anyone else had a less than spectacular collecting year?

As a specialist, finding things is never easy, but this year, in particular, has been like searching for a needle in a haystack. Yes, I picked up some things, and yes, a few were nice, but for the most part they were just okay, or duplicated what I already have. I missed a few in bidding, as do we all, or found out about something for sale when it was too late, but not much. Then, I look at things like a Fred Carillo panel page which sold at auction for $2,800 and just shake my head. Fred Carillo? Did I miss the memo on his prices suddenly heating up from 3 figures, even for a mundane piece?

I also went outside my preferential buying area to different subjects more than in past years, and again picked up some commission work, but it isn't the same. Like they say in the funny pages: "sigh".

Anyone care to join in this collector's lament? Or am I the only one?

[Guest Race]

There is no doubt we are now competing with wealthy individuals who are not traditional OA fans, but have been professionally advised to buy OA; this is skewing higher end prices accordingly while also causing a trickle-down boost to lower tier art prices. You're not just competing with other Carillo fans now -- you're competing with folks who would normally spend $5K on a John Buscema Avengers or DC Kirby page, but are finding prices moving too high so they are snapping up decent art "bargains" (like that $2,800 page).

My best buy this year was from a fellow CAF member in France. Liked a page, saw he was selling others, reached out and made a decent offer he accepted. Don't give up on making connections with fellow collectors! They are your most reasonable option these days, aside from sneaking a nice character page off CLink now and then.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Race

[Timely]

Sometimes being a “specialist” means you are lucky to find 1 or 2 pieces a year. Some of my friends wait 5 years to add 1 nice piece to their specific collection.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Timely

[Andahaion]

Well, I will say it was a much slower year for me.  Collecting is feeling more like a hustle.  And with prices what they are, I was really hesitant to pull the trigger on much.  I think this was for a couple reasons, one being that I was waiting to see if something better would come around, and the other being that I'm kinda not really believing a lot of this stuff is worth the cost to acquire.  I also have other interests, so in the push/pull that goes on between my hobbies OA doesn't usually prevail (at least recently).  

[J.Sid]

I always thought it was a little weird that I could own a Byrne X-Men or McFarlane Amazing Spider-Man original hand drawn page. The latest market developments actually make things make more sense in my mind.

[Rick2you2]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:21 AM, J.Sid said:

I always thought it was a little weird that I could own a Byrne X-Men or McFarlane Amazing Spider-Man original hand drawn page. The latest market developments actually make things make more sense in my mind.

Why is it so hard to fathom? These guys put on one pants leg at a time like we do. 

[J.Sid]

I'm one of those guys who grew up in the midwest and never went to a con until my mid-20s. The idea that this stuff even existed blew my mind, let alone the concept of owning something from one of the runs I revered. 

[Rick2you2]

On 12/22/2021 at 8:49 AM, Race said:

There is no doubt we are now competing with wealthy individuals who are not traditional OA fans, but have been professionally advised to buy OA; this is skewing higher end prices accordingly while also causing a trickle-down boost to lower tier art prices. You're not just competing with other Carillo fans now -- you're competing with folks who would normally spend $5K on a John Buscema Avengers or DC Kirby page, but are finding prices moving too high so they are snapping up decent art "bargains" (like that $2,800 page).

My best buy this year was from a fellow CAF member in France. Liked a page, saw he was selling others, reached out and made a decent offer he accepted. Don't give up on making connections with fellow collectors! They are your most reasonable option these days, aside from sneaking a nice character page off CLink now and then.

I find it hard to imagine there are real Fred Carrillo fans. He is/was a perfectly competent artist, but nothing special, at least on his Phantom Stranger run. That page was worse than usual. His first panel had the character wearing a hat that looked like in had been flattened with a frying pan. The layout was cluttered—something which I primarily have to blame the writer for doing—but he sure didn’t mitigate it. It was a page one, which I guess is worth something. Normally, I expect to see his stuff over/under $500. So, I could see almost 1K, but not 2.8k. Ironically, there was a pretty decent Mignola page with a half-splash which sold that time for exactly the same amount. A bit high, but along the lines of inflated pricing trends (I passed since I have 2 others which aren’t quite as nice but close).

[Rick2you2]

On 12/22/2021 at 12:16 PM, J.Sid said:

I'm one of those guys who grew up in the midwest and never went to a con until my mid-20s. The idea that this stuff even existed blew my mind, let alone the concept of owning something from one of the runs I revered. 

I didn’t either, but I grew up near NYC, and once I knew about it, my sense of reverence was rapidly flushed. I will never forget my lengthy conversation with Jim [sic, John] Byrne at that first show. He was a nice friendly guy back then. I wish him well, along with the others I met.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Rick2you2

[NicoV]

I only bought one page this year, but it was a piece I was eyeing since it was uploaded to 2DG by its owner, so I probably can't call this year a crummy year. I see less and less pages that I would like to buy AND would consider as having a chance of being the higher bidder.

[aardvark88]

On 12/22/2021 at 9:28 AM, Rick2you2 said:

I grew up near NYC, and once I knew about it, my sense of reverence was rapidly flushed. I will never forget my lengthy conversation with Jim Byrne at that first show. He was a nice friendly guy back then.

Do u mean 'John' Byrne who was still doing con sketches and chatting with collectors in USA and Canada in 1981-82?

[Guest Race]

Think there might be more Fred fans than you think... he was a competent draftsman and storyteller working in an instantly identifiable late 70s aesthetic typified by Alex Nino, Nestor Redondo and Gerry Talaoc. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of 90s artists thought highly of him... I can't see characters drawn by Bart Sears without thinking his inspiration was all the wavy-haired men and women drawn by Fred LOL

[Will_K]

The hammer price could be due to the "men call me the Phantom Stranger" tagline, it being a page 1 and the Deadman appearance.  it doesn't look like someone is trying to complete the book since there are pages in a few different collections on CAF.

A few years ago, there was a topic asking for the best auction venue for selling comic art.  My thought was that was Heritage and ComicConnect.  I know CC has their detractors.  But to me, their auction styles definitely squeeze the most $$$ possible out of each piece.  By not having a fixed ending time for the auction, the art is in play for as long as possible.  Throw in ego, thrills and the bid increments, you can get to $2,800 pretty fast.  Now that I've bid on Hakes, I'll add them to the list.  However, HA is different from those other 2 because one lot will hold up all the other succeeding lots.

For reference:

Edited December 22, 2021 by Will_K

[RBerman]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:11 AM, Rick2you2 said:

Why is it so hard to fathom? These guys put on one pants leg at a time like we do. 

it's not so much about their pants as about their fan base. Hundreds of thousands of folks a month were buying the comics, so it stands to reason there's a fair number of people with the money and interest to acquire the original pages even at a high cost. Leaving less opportunity for those of lesser means.

[Aahz]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:49 AM, Race said:

There is no doubt we are now competing with wealthy individuals who are not traditional OA fans, but have been professionally advised to buy OA; this is skewing higher end prices accordingly while also causing a trickle-down boost to lower tier art prices. You're not just competing with other Carillo fans now -- you're competing with folks who would normally spend $5K on a John Buscema Avengers or DC Kirby page, but are finding prices moving too high so they are snapping up decent art "bargains" (like that $2,800 page).

My best buy this year was from a fellow CAF member in France. Liked a page, saw he was selling others, reached out and made a decent offer he accepted. Don't give up on making connections with fellow collectors! They are your most reasonable option these days, aside from sneaking a nice character page off CLink now and then.

Diverging for a second from the theme ... there are without doubt more collectors with more money coming into the hobby ... maybe transitioning from comic books or something else.  However, I am curious about the reality of "professionally advised to buy [comic book] OA."  Now I can see at the top tier $75K plus there being an investor mentality ...especially for key pieces or big names like Frazetta.  Also, there have been a lot of articles on hedging against inflation and such using "fine art."  I have trouble believing that this would extend to the sub 20K space.  I cannot believe that an investment professional would say, "You have to diversify ... have you considered Byrne X-Men pages?"

[Guest Race]

Sub $20K Byrne X-Men ship has sailed... you have to go back to March 2020 to find it

 https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-byrne-and-terry-austin-x-men-120-story-page-5-cyclops-and-storm-original-art-marvel-1979-/a/7224-94042.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

[DeadpoolJr.]

This year was different for me since my best buys came from private deals with other collectors off CAF and buying direct from the artist rather than auction wins which was my norm. Partly because auction prices are going up at a higher rate than my income. 

That's not to say I've given up on that format completely and am also one of those people looking for bargains for pieces I'm interested in for a cheap price relative to the rest of the market. Especially when it comes to the none big auctions. Comiclink's focused auctions for example has actually had stuff I was more eager to win than their featured lots letting me get examples I've wanted for a while. 

I think I can still compete with getting nice pieces but I'll need to do more of a check list to see if I really want it and to what extent-

1. If it's a piece I really need to have
2. Would regret not giving my all to try and get.
3. Would I keep it as a blackhole piece and sell it unless needing to by outside circumstances
4. Is it a piece that if it was my single example of a artist, character, or series would I be happy with it
5. Would I be willing to sell pieces from my collection to finance it

Besides being more selective for the big pieces I also put some money away and cut down on smaller buys to add to the war chest. You can also be someone if they can afford it do time payments on a auction win but that's probably the biggest controversy for collectors when it comes to auctions.

[Rick2you2]

On 12/22/2021 at 12:55 PM, aardvark88 said:

Do u mean 'John' Byrne who was still doing con sketches and chatting with collectors in USA and Canada in 1981-82?

Jim Byrne was the Treasurer of a company I used to work at. He was also a friend of the family

John Byrne was the penciller of this piece, with Joe Rubinstein doing inks (John didn't do them when I got this in 1980). You can't tell from the photo, but it is huge. I would love to add one from his Legends work, if I could find it (and the price wasn't insane). I have passed up one of his pages from Wonder Woman. I just don't care for that light squiggly work he did on the book.

 

 

[Rick2you2]

On 12/22/2021 at 2:02 PM, Race said:

Think there might be more Fred fans than you think... he was a competent draftsman and storyteller working in an instantly identifiable late 70s aesthetic typified by Alex Nino, Nestor Redondo and Gerry Talaoc. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of 90s artists thought highly of him... I can't see characters drawn by Bart Sears without thinking his inspiration was all the wavy-haired men and women drawn by Fred LOL

He was competent; no question about it. Redondo, I would grab in a minute or less, and now have a pretty good Talaoc. No Nino, however, no known images of PS.

And, I do have one of Fred's pieces, but this, in my opinion isn't worth it, particularly when this page by Mignola went for the same price:

 

 

[Will_K]

The previous piece in the same auction was Phantom Stranger 39 p 7.  It went for less than the piece that you mentioned (about $1,500).  It even features part of Deadman's origin and PS doesn't even appear.  Go figure.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Will_K