THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[Bosco685]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:52 PM, jaybuck43 said:

The only thing that has flopped so far is the opening weekend.  In 5 days its at $114 million.  I would not be surprised at all if when things finish, Eternals is still worse.  Especially since its budget was almost $100 million more.  

Billion dollar companies don't make knee jerk reactions. Iger did not wake up and read variety on Monday and start screaming "CUT FILMS, NO MORE WE'RE DONE".  This was a decision weeks/months in the making.  

With the details coming out The Eternals actually costs $276M just with the production budget, you could be right.

FORBES: Eternals Was Over Budget Says Marvel

But this was a core character rolled into the Infinity Saga. Even many felt Captain Marvel could have destroyed Thanos. Where the film The Eternals was all fresh characters. So comparing these two when the latter had a massive solo film would be off when it had that foundation to continue its box office success.

[VintageComics]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:52 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Billion dollar companies don't make knee jerk reactions. Iger did not wake up and read variety on Monday and start screaming "CUT FILMS, NO MORE WE'RE DONE".  This was a decision weeks/months in the making.  

Of course. I never thought Iger made a snap decision based on the opinions in this thread either.

I'm well aware that multi billion industries don't make decisions overnight and have been loosely following the Disney story for most of this year and I agree that Eternals and other franchises helped forced Disney to admit they were on the wrong track.

But the announcements to changes at Disney's movie division @alexgross.com posted a few days ago, which are basically the first public admissions that they screwed up, that I was aware of just happened to coincide at the same time this movie hit theaters, and so it's natural for the discussion to take place in this thread.

Edited November 15, 2023 by VintageComics
Syntax

[VintageComics]

I actually would have really enjoyed learning about the inner workings of movie houses more from people like @EastEnd1 

It's a shame that the discussion got derailed. I think a LOT of people would enjoy that discussion, no matter what they thought about this movie. 

[jaybuck43]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:01 PM, VintageComics said:

Of course.I never thought Iger made a snap decision based on the opinions in this thread either.

I'm well aware of how decision making in large corporations happens and have been loosely following the Disney story for most of this year and I agree that Eternals and other franchises helped forced Disney admit they were on the wrong track.

But the announcements to changes at Disney's movie division @alexgross.com posted a few days ago, which are basically the first public admissions that they screwed up, that I was aware of just happened to coincide at the same time this movie hit theaters, and so it's natural for the discussion to take place in this thread.

The first major announcements that Disney screwed up was when they fired Chapick, brought back iger, realized streaming was a bad bet, started trying to license to Netflix again, and fired a ton of people.  Cutting their films is maybe 8th on the list?

[Bosco685]

At a $275M production budget alone just to hit 3.0X production budget it needs to land at $825M. It should get there once a certain fan rents out all those theaters.

[VintageComics]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:06 PM, jaybuck43 said:

The first major announcements that Disney screwed up was when they fired Chapick, brought back iger, realized streaming was a bad bet, started trying to license to Netflix again, and fired a ton of people.  Cutting their films is maybe 8th on the list?

It's the same way in every large industry (sports, entertainment, etc). There are a lot of moving pieces and lots of heads to lob off when things go south. 

When I said I loosely followed the Disney story, I knew Iger was hired back, I knew they were struggling, I knew that I didn't really have an interest in many of the movies and from an economic and political perspective, I was following what was going on with social movements in relation to them but I didn't delve into the specifics of Chapik's firing. 

Obviously there are at least two sides to the story, so what was the gist surrounding Chapick's firing from both his perspective and from Disney's?

Maybe @Bosco685 has some insight?

[Bosco685]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:13 PM, VintageComics said:

It's the same way in every large industry (sports, entertainment, etc). There are a lot of moving pieces and lots of heads to lob off when things go south. 

When I said I loosely followed the Disney story, I knew Iger was hired back, I knew they were struggling, I knew that I didn't really have an interest in many of the movies and from an economic and political perspective, I was following what was going on with social movements in relation to them but I didn't delve into the specifics of Chapik's firing. 

Obviously there are at least two sides to the story, so what was the gist surrounding Chapick's firing from both his perspective and from Disney's?

Maybe @Bosco685 has some insight?

There is an article I posted somewhere in this area that outlined the rocky relationship between Iger and Chapek that started out better until the latter was announced as his successor. Then it was as if Iger had a change of heart, and did things to sabotage his hand-picked successor. To include denying him the CEO's office that was traditionally offered up after the official handoff.

[paqart]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:35 PM, Buzzetta said:

Please stop before someone feels that because James Cameron directed the film, that the iceberg was another example of female empowerment meant to emasculate the male represented Titanic.  

 

Female empowerment is Gone With the Wind, Sound of Music, Mrs. Miniver, not Captain Marvel or IronHeart. 

[paqart]

I'm just wondering if disenfranchised customers can hold out longer than the companies that have abandoned them. I didn't think I'd make it with Pixar, but it was easier than I thought. Haven't seen one of their movies in years. Marvel, I expected to be tougher, and it is. I've seen a couple in the last few years, but skipped several others, including the Spider-verse film that just came out. Right now, I am more interested in the Sony Marvel villain movies than the Disney MCU movies. D+ is a little trickier because when I work, I like to have something mildly entertaining on one of my monitors. If too entertaining, it is distracting. If not entertaining eough, it doesn't prevent boredom. Most of the MCU TV shows were perfect for that. The exceptions were Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Moon Knight, Werewolf by Knight, and the last few seasons of SHIELD.

Bud Light is no problem because I don't drink, but if someone makes it so the only vegetables on the market are GMO, I'll either be eating my lawn or will cave. The thing is, I don't like to have options taken from us, so that we are forced to consume the only thing that is left. Film offerings were pretty homogenous in SciFi until Iron Man. It was so refreshing, it brought customers back to theaters that had long ago left. But then we had the string of films in the old flavor after Endgame (and including parts of Endgame.) It was disappointing. The uniformity of content is on the level of what I experienced when I was in China. The people I met were terrified they might say the wrong thing, so they only talked about what they knew wouldn't get them into trouble. It led to a number of boring conversations about nothing. Meanwhile, it was very interesting they had been reduced to that condition, but that couldn't be discussed. The MCU is similar now.

[Mr Sneeze]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:58 PM, paqart said:

Female empowerment is Gone With the Wind, Sound of Music, Mrs. Miniver, not Captain Marvel or IronHeart. 

[sfcityduck]

On 11/15/2023 at 12:28 PM, VintageComics said:

 

What I said was that they were MISSING THEIR TARGET AUDIENCE with the Superhero genre, of which women have MUCH less interest in than men do. Many of the women going to superhero movies were DRAGGED there by men. That's real life. 

 

 

I have never walked in a theatre to watch a Marvel or Star Wars movie without at least one woman (almost always my wife, variously also my friends - usually couples - sister, and nieces). When there's a Marvel movie out around Christmas or July its a family affair. At home, we usually go with other couples.

Don't know where you live in Canada, but the culture of your area may have "nurtured" the desire to see Marvel movies out of the women you know. I've never had a need to drag anyone to a Marvel movie.

As for your genetic "nature" argument, I'm completely unaware of any studies which conclude that there's a genetic difference between men and women which impacts desire to see Marvel movies. So you'll have to cite that one to me ... if it exists.  And if it does, I'm sure I'll enjoy seeing what the scientific reaction is.

A person's physical sex and base sexual orientation, I concede, are dictated by genetics. Folks are born male and gay. But "gender" as it relates to social and cultural differences is a social construct not a biological one. To give an example, just because you are born a woman (or gay for that matter) does not mean you want to wear a dress and read Little Women.

 

[Buzzetta]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:58 PM, paqart said:

Female empowerment is Gone With the Wind, Sound of Music, Mrs. Miniver, not Captain Marvel or IronHeart. 

The fact that you even took that seriously enough to respond demonstrates exactly the point as to what my comment was designed to do. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Buzzetta

[sfcityduck]

On 11/15/2023 at 3:58 PM, paqart said:

Female empowerment is Gone With the Wind, Sound of Music, Mrs. Miniver, not Captain Marvel or IronHeart. 

How about Barbie?

[Bosco685]

[sfcityduck]

I just want to thank the creator of the thread for finding a topic where Prince Namor and I are on common ground (which we aren't on his Kirby is God and Lee is Satan threads). It restores my faith in the notion that we're all pretty similar. Too bad he has me on "ignore" and will never know that we share common ground on this topic. Another example of how putting on blinders really does blind you to not only the uncomfortable moments but also the positive ones. 

On 11/15/2023 at 12:24 PM, sfcityduck said:

People disliked Lennon's work when he was with Yoko? News to me. Sure people blamed Yoko for breaking up the Beatles (which was unfair), but I don't think that bled into a dislike of Lennon's solo output. Plastic Ono Band has long been recognized as one of the greatest classic rock albums of all time. Lennon churned out many classic songs like Imagine, Working Class Hero, Instant Karma, Jealous Guy etc. as a solo act.

I can see people getting fatigued with the similarity of the "sound" of his last few albums, something that happened to McCartney around the 80s, and also to Harrison. I personally tend to grow bored of musical acts when they just keep churing out the same stuff without evolving. 

 

 

 

On 11/15/2023 at 1:10 PM, Prince Namor said:

No. It's not. 
If you continuously tell the same story: 'Cosmic Menace wants to destroy the Universe - Everything goes back to normal afterwards', people will tire of that. 
 

You know what will happen before you see it. 
 

That's why most sequels DON'T do as well as the original, because audiences mostly know how things will end up. You can dress it up in different flavors for a while but generally speaking, Marvel has beaten this horse to death. 

....

That's why people didn't like some of Lennon's solo work, but that's not the same thing as this. 
If Lennon's work was merely the same thing as his Beatles work and people grew bored hearing the same old thing, THAT would be comparable. 
 

The example you use is more along the lines of people hate Captain Marvel because she's not the 'White Male Superhero' they're used to. It's different than what they know, so they don't like it. 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by sfcityduck

[1950's war comics]

On 11/15/2023 at 3:58 PM, paqart said:

Female empowerment is Gone With the Wind, Sound of Music, Mrs. Miniver, not Captain Marvel or IronHeart. 

correct ! and once again thank you....

members like you and posts like yours are just what is needed to make these boards great again !!

[sfcityduck]

On 11/15/2023 at 12:28 PM, VintageComics said:

 

If you want to write compelling storylines FOR WOMEN, you need to involve emotion, complexity, depth, justice, community.

 

Isn't that a description of the best Marvel comic and MCU storylines?

On 11/15/2023 at 12:28 PM, VintageComics said:

 

Women WILL NOT take risks that will endanger the community. They will NOT invest in something they don't understand whereas MEN generally WILL. 

 

We could all list a lot of contrary anecdotes in the world of business. Not at all convinced that either sex has a genetic competence edge as a CEO.

And politics. There are many examples of tough female leaders who seemed less concerned with "the community" than other priorities. <cough cough> Margaret Thatcher <cough cough> aka the "Iron Lady" <cough cough>

 

 

[Buzzetta]

I was just privately asked who "Stu" is.  

Wrong answers only please...   

[D84]

Since we are talking about anything but The Marvels: whose had a colonoscopy this year?

[RedRaven]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:19 PM, D84 said:

Since we are talking about anything but The Marvels: whose had a colonoscopy this year?

I have. Clean bill of health. Three polyps removed, none of concern. Thanks for asking.