THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[Nick Furious]

On 11/11/2023 at 10:54 AM, VintageComics said:

I have yet to see the movie but plan to. What do you mean by this?

The Barbie movie does a convincing job of conveying that we really do live in a world that has been molded and shaped primarily by men.  Women have primarily played a background or non-executive participation role.  Part of this is displayed by juxtaposing it against Barbieland, a world that has been molded and shaped by women where men are just the background.  But Barbieland is like the Truman Show, every day they get up, wave and say hello, and go to the beach (where they may or may not silently judge each other).  It's a really good movie and incorporates a lot of small historical details from the history of the toy line.  Has a great opening scene with homage to 2001 A Space Odyssey.  It was helpful to watch it with a 13-year-old daughter who had educated herself on every little background detail and could explain it to me.   

[Bosco685]

 

[VintageComics]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:27 PM, Nick Furious said:

The Barbie movie does a convincing job of conveying that we really do live in a world that has been molded and shaped primarily by men.  Women have primarily played a background or non-executive participation role.  Part of this is displayed by juxtaposing it against Barbieland, a world that has been molded and shaped by women where men are just the background.  But Barbieland is like the Truman Show, every day they get up, wave and say hello, and go to the beach (where they may or may not silently judge each other).  It's a really good movie and incorporates a lot of small historical details from the history of the toy line.  Has a great opening scene with homage to 2001 A Space Odyssey.  It was helpful to watch it with a 13-year-old daughter who had educated herself on every little background detail and could explain it to me.   

Gotcha. I won't derail this thread but I assume there's a Barbie thread here so I'll take this convo over there as I have some great discussion points to make. 

[Buzzetta]

On 11/11/2023 at 11:57 AM, VintageComics said:

Your entire post is derogatory, personal, insulting and you are bringing in views that nobody has expressed WHILE insulting him. It's not OK and a post like this shouldn't be allowed. 

I've heard you talk about your "Long Island, Italian", mobster form of justice and it's THAT that I disapprove of. 

I've disagreed with you before on it and I will always disagree with you on it. 

You actually deserve a strike for this taunting post. It's not OK and I've lost a lot of respect for you because of it. 

And I could say that I find that offensive and to tell the truth I am okay with it.  This is the reaction that I have earned from you.   Now, point to the original direction that my reaction is coming from.   Ya boi, who constantly injects certain viewpoints and phrasing and words into his posts seems to get a pass from you because you either agree with it or are missing it. Then you get upset when others catch him in his nonsensical act.  See?   

As far as respect?   These things happen.   Personally, I don't think that post was as insulting as you are claiming.  I actually edited some things out before I submit it. 

If it makes you feel better, I have to leave soon so you will be rid of me probably until next weekend so you two can pat each other on the back.   No matter what you can get the last word.   

 

 

[Buzzetta]

On 11/11/2023 at 11:06 AM, fantastic_four said:

So, fire a one of one dude in Feige and replace him with...who?    Ideally it will be a superfan without writing or art creds like Feige has always been.  There was never any danger that Feige would go back to writing or drawing because he didn't have skill at that to even fall back on it like a Geoff Johns did.  That's Kathleen Kennedy's problem--she's a stellar producer, but she is NOT a content curator, nor does she appear to have much of an instinct for how to curate content and Star Wars has suffered for it.  I'm guessing Kennedy has never known who Figrin D'an is, and that's who they need curating their content--a superfan.  Pablo Hidalgo and Dave Filoni are superfans, but both are also writers so they're not ideal candidates.  They're still both the best candidates to have creative control over that content, but neither has really been given that control to date so who knows how they'd do.  

I agree.  I watched the Mets fanbase here in NY clamor for some action by ownership after their disastrous 2023 season.  Ownership let Buck Showalter go.  Now you can debate back and forth whether Showalter is the guy to close the deal but he is a great baseball manager and mind.   The Mets went ahead and hired Carlos Mendoza, the Yankees bench coach as the replacement after he came off his own disastrous season. 

The question that the Mets did not really consider when letting Buck go, who are we going to get that is better.

The Yankees made the same mistake when they let Joe Girardi go.  I would say in retrospect that Boone was not the answer.

You let Kevin Feige go, who is the better suited mind to replace him? 

[paqart]

On 11/11/2023 at 9:34 AM, Buzzetta said:

My point was not irrelevant.  It was irrelevant to YOU because it does not fit your narrative.   To be honest, I will probably not be seeing The Marvels in the theater.  It does not look like a strong movie worth the price of admission and time spent in the theater the same way I did not see Transformers in the theater.  Now, will I watch it when it hits Disney+ in a few months?  I will definitely check it out after I watch the series, Ms. Marvel.  In no way will I stay away from a movie because of some fear of being "emasculated."

You come here running your mouth spouting off the dangers of emasculation because a comic book character was gifted by the powers that be to have a stronger power set than a male.  You know that these are imaginary powers?  Oh no, the powered being has to rescue the male character and the roles switched places between the traditional damsel in distress who played a bumbling oaf and now a male plays that role.   All of a sudden you feel your "little paqart" is small.   Don't worry, a quite a few people across all areas and backgrounds revealed in the last thread and the last time you ran your mouth that they think you are a "big paqart".

The problem is that your beliefs are your brand.  I have gone through some of your writings, your missives, your comments here and elsewhere.  You have to support and build that brand dontchya?  See this is what some would call, your gimmick, and you have successfully blurred the lines between performing your little gimmick and living it.   Now, how the brand started is up for debate.  I am sure it was born into some form of your actual belief system, but again I will go back to what I said earlier, "She said, 'No", it's probably been many years since.  It's time to move on."

Now, @VintageComics I saw earlier you said you were disappointed in how I speak to this guy.  I am sorry if I have made you uncomfortable, as that was not my intent.  I think there is a part of you though, that knows I am curbing my comments and I would have a much stronger voice to him in person, if he was ever worth my limited personal free time. 

 

@jsilverjanet  See what you started  ? 

Not sure what you hope to accomplish with personal attacks. It doesn't do much for your credibility, though it could be described as an exercise in posturing skill. In any event, we seem to disagree on every word. This post you just wrote, as far as I can tell, is no more grounded in reality than the fairy godmother. I'll just put you on ignore. I suggest you do the same.

[paqart]

On 11/10/2023 at 9:36 PM, CGC Mike said:

@PopKulture speaks the truth.  This thread has seen enough about the pandemic and any political hints that may lure people into a political discussion.  I am not singling anyone out. Keep the discussion on topic.   The same goes for any other threads.  I do not like to have to open my toolbox, but I will if a post or string of posts cross the line.  

That's fine, but I was the one who was "drawn out," as long as we're being clear.

[Buzzetta]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:03 PM, paqart said:

Not sure what you hope to accomplish with personal attacks. It doesn't do much for your credibility, though it could be described as an exercise in posturing skill. In any event, we seem to disagree on every word. This post you just wrote, as far as I can tell, is no more grounded in reality than the fairy godmother. I'll just put you on ignore. I suggest you do the same.

You have mentioned that you seem to ignore most everything you feel may emasculate you.   I am actually proud to be on that list I guess.  But, no, I will not be putting you on ignore.  

[paqart]

On 11/10/2023 at 7:06 PM, VintageComics said:

While I might agree, this is no longer the place IMO. I know you're hurting. I'm hurting too. 

If ANYONE championed these things, it was me and that's no secret (40 strikes and a ban from the Watercooler for proof).

I've committed to not do it here anymore for everyone's sake including my own. I've taken my points elsewhere where they'll be more effective. 

I would humbly suggest the same. You have made great points and I would hate if you couldn't do that anymore. Just offering advice as a friend. 

Immediately after your PM, I modified my post. That was two days ago. 

[namisgr]

On 11/11/2023 at 11:55 AM, fantastic_four said:

There's a trend of mis-using that word over the past decade or so.  What 80% of people mean when they say "misogyny" is actually chauvinism.  Actual misogynists are pretty rare, but people who have an obvious bias towards their own gender are plentiful.

Misogyny: dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women

[VintageComics]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:56 PM, Buzzetta said:

And I could say that I find that offensive and to tell the truth I am okay with it.  This is the reaction that I have earned from you.   Now, point to the original direction that my reaction is coming from.   Ya boi, who constantly injects certain viewpoints and phrasing and words into his posts seems to get a pass from you because you either agree with it or are missing it. Then you get upset when others catch him in his nonsensical act.  See?   

As far as respect?   These things happen.   Personally, I don't think that post was as insulting as you are claiming.  I actually edited some things out before I submit it. 

If it makes you feel better, I have to leave soon so you will be rid of me probably until next weekend so you two can pat each other on the back.   No matter what you can get the last word.  

He's not 'mai boy'

Nobody finds the truth more offensive than people who can only hurl insults. 

And on here, you've condoned violence as a resolution in the past, you've told me I don't know how to raise my daughters (paraphrasing) and when I told my daughters the things you said about them they disagreed with you and you're now talking about his personal life. 

Nobody is patting anyone on the back. It's just a discussion and you are constantly turning up the heat unnecessarily. 

[Buzzetta]

On 11/10/2023 at 11:54 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I wish these guys would get on the same-day streaming bandwagon. I'd pay $20-$30 to watch this at home. Same thing with the upcoming Napoleon. I'm just not going to the theater again, and I know I'm not the only person I know who feels that way. It's just a different world now - going to the movies is not the event it once was.

Absolutely, but I think it goes further back than streaming.  I think it has been this way since Netflix offered a mail at home rental service, at least for me anyway. 

We used to go to the movies far more frequently before Netflix disc by mail.  Then the opportunity came to catch up on all media that you missed.  Then as the turnaround time between disc rental and theatrical debut lessoned, seeing the movie in a theater became less important.    

[paqart]

On 11/11/2023 at 11:28 AM, fantastic_four said:

Favreau did great.  Nolan did great, too.  But not everybody is a Favreau, and even Favreau isn't always as good as Favreau sometimes is.  He's up and down.

The problem with most studio execs is that they have no real talent at writing, and they don't know much about the content.  EVERY exec has been like that with two exceptions--Feige, and Geoff Johns.  Maybe one of the other short-lived DC Films execs too, I forget who has had that job right now.  Avi Arad is the most vivid example of this kind of typical exec--he had no idea what would work, he just hired the best director or screenwriter and hoped they would figure it out.  Arad seemed to have almost no sense for content continuity across directors at all like Feige has had.  Sometimes an Arad, or a Kathleen Kennedy, or whoever hired Nolan will hire the right creatives and it'll be awesome.  Sometimes they won't and we'll get an Elektra.  And sometimes they'll muck up a good thing like Arad did with Sam Raimi and we'll get a Spider-Man 3.

Perlmutter is a much longer discussion, and I think we have another thread for that.  I'd love to return to it though because I LOVED the concept of his Marvel Creative Committee because it seemed like it would solve the exact issue I just described--Perlmutter knew he didn't know how to guide Marvel's films, so he tasked Marvel's best creatives with doing it for him.  I loved that idea from the start, and I'm STILL not sure why it ended up failing.  I'd love to explore it in more depth though because I still think that would be better than anything DC has tried to date, i.e. a creative committee consisting of DC's best creative talent from the comics.

A problem with doing this now is that "Marvel's best creatives" aren't the same people they were fifteen years ago. If they could go back to the mid-eighties, about as far as they can go with living creatives, you'd get a better result than what they have now. That, or work with people who've gone independent or left comics.

[VintageComics]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:10 PM, namisgr said:

On 11/11/2023 at 11:55 AM, fantastic_four said:

There's a trend of mis-using that word over the past decade or so.  What 80% of people mean when they say "misogyny" is actually chauvinism.  Actual misogynists are pretty rare, but people who have an obvious bias towards their own gender are plentiful.

Misogyny: dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women

One can claim anything by editing the past and we see it happening in real time as dictionary meanings change words unilaterally to fit new ideas rather than CREATE NEW WORDS, but that doesn't make it correct or true.

Considering you routinely edit your posts to change their meanings, sometimes days after when nobody even thinks to look anymore, I'm not surprised you'd support this. 

Oh well. As long as people are aware it's happening, that's all anyone can ask for. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by VintageComics

[Buzzetta]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:13 PM, VintageComics said:

And on here, you've condoned violence as a resolution in the past, you've told me I don't know how to raise my daughters (paraphrasing) and when I told my daughters the things you said about them they disagreed with you and you're now talking about his personal life. 

 

That is paraphrased and I thank you for saying that.   It should also be said that I very much apologized for that and still do.

I REALLY have to be on my way.

 

[fantastic_four]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:06 PM, VintageComics said:

The Auteur theory is more like the Stan Lee / Marvel way, where Stan sets a course but the creative director or the artist follows just a loose outline while conveying MOST of the message in much the same way the Russo Brothers do in their own flavor. Very interested and I never thought about it that way.

With the auteur theory of film one person controls everything.  Stan Lee's "Marvel Method" actually gave him far LESS control that the method the vast majority of writers have.

The usual way of creating a comic is roughly like this:

1. Writer writes a semi-complete outline for the story and plot of the comic.  Most of them include notes for each page--or even down to the panel level--for what the artist should draw.  Dialogue is usually included here as well to help guide the artist, but I think some writers fill in the exact dialogue later.
2. Artist takes the outline and draws art to match the writer's plot.
3. Writer reviews the art with whatever form of dialogue they've written.  Sometimes they tweak their dialogue, sometimes they ask the artist to tweak the art.
4. Once the art and dialogue and expository panels are complete the inkers, letterers, and colorists take it from there.

Stan Lee skipped step one entirely and let the artist determine the plot.  He would discuss the story verbally with the artist, but then leave it to the artist to determine how he wanted to tell the story.  Lee would then go back and fill in dialogue that matched the artist's plots evident in the art.

All of this gave Stan LESS control, and it's quite divergent from the auteur theory because he shared creative control with the artist.  Many fans prefer to credit Kirby, or Ditko, or whoever the artist was over Stan for writing the comics.  They're not wrong, but it was definitely both of them, and Stan had the final word.  Sometimes he would just toss the entire set of artwork if he severely disagreed with the artist's plot direction, but I doubt he did that much.  There wasn't time since he was controlling the story and dialogue for every comic in the 1960s.

Edited November 11, 2023 by fantastic_four

[batmiesta]

On 11/11/2023 at 9:57 AM, jimjum12 said:

I thought the trailer looked very intriguing. I'm sure I'll love it ... I'm not intimidated by strong alpha women. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Me neither, just don't give a  about them. 

[fantastic_four]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:16 PM, VintageComics said:

Let me ask you: In a simple answer, what exactly do you think is the reason Feige is faltering so much after so much success?

Iger has been spreading him too thinly.  When he tried to get Feige to go in and clean up Kennedy's mess with Star Wars I immediately facepalmed--WHAT?  Leave this guy to keep creating magic with Marvel, dude!    He's done what nobody else has ever done and you want to put MORE on his plate?  

The biggest example of this was giving him control of both the comics AND the television shows--he's never done either one!  And it's the shows that he's struggled the most on.  They're all average, maybe slightly above average, at best, whereas when all he had to work on were the films he had been producing for almost his entire adult life he created the largest, most cohesive set of superhero films ever made with the Infinity Saga.

[VintageComics]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:36 PM, Buzzetta said:

That is paraphrased and I thank you for saying that.   It should also be said that I very much apologized for that and still do.

I REALLY have to be on my way.

[fantastic_four]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:10 PM, namisgr said:

Misogyny: dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women

80% of people who use that word skip the "ingrained" part, and I'm not a fan of the definition due to that--it needs to go further in differentiating men with a bias towards men as opposed to men who have an active and perpetual disdain for women.

Rapists are misogynists.  I think Harvey Weinstein must have been a misogynist given what he did to actresses, but I'm not totally sure of it without learning more about him.  Most of the other MeToo celebrities who got cancelled weren't misogynists, but they certainly got called that a lot.  But that term gets thrown at men who mostly just have a bias towards men, and it's irritating.