But.... Isn't pressing a form of restoration ?? 3 3

[batchainpllr]

It seems odd to me that CGC will put a purple label on a restored comic even if it's only been cleaned, yet they don't put one on a comic that's been pressed - a service that they offer.

[theCapraAegagrus]

No one is adding or removing material to change the composition in the typical pressing process, so I would say "no".

Edited January 21, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[comicginger1789]

On 1/21/2022 at 9:54 AM, batchainpllr said:

It seems odd to me that CGC will put a purple label on a restored comic even if it's only been cleaned, yet they don't put one on a comic that's been pressed - a service that they offer.

Restoration means adding something that wasn't there previously. Colour touch, sealing tears, using glue. 

I view pressing and cleaning like freshening up an old antique item. You could dig something out of a barn (an old sign, a piece of furniture, heck even a classic car) and its covered in dust and coon poop and whatever. You aren't going to leave it...you will clean it. And if that is all you do (maybe with the sign you smooth out a couple dings without changing the sign) you immediately improve the appearance of the book and therefore the condition. Nothing has been restored in these instances, and nor has it when you use a little dry eraser and a press on a comic. 

[comicginger1789]

Now, if a book has been chemically cleaned, that's a different story...but a comic cleaned with dry erasers and the like should never get a purple label (and never has to my knowledge)...

[comicginger1789]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:44 AM, PiggyTTV said:

Pressing is definitely a form of restoration because you are improving the appearance/condition of the book by mechanical means. The fact that you can't detect it makes it acceptable to get a Blue label.

I guess I just disagree. If you clean a dusty covered car, wash the interior and buff out a few dings, all while keeping the car original and not adding any new parts, pieces or pant, that is still a 100% original car (and I should think car guys would say the same). You clean it by mechanical means to make it look much better. And people would pay more for it after that because it looks great and took a little work to get there.

I view comics in the same way. Maybe that is wrong but it is how I have felt ever since I learned about pressing within the hobby. 

[comicginger1789]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:56 AM, PiggyTTV said:

Tha car analogy has never worked for me. Not even close to the same in my mind.

Read my link, it will help you understand.

If you want to call it restoration, that's fine. I don't. And I view it very differently than adding colour, leaf casting, gluing, etc. Maybe you don't and it's all the same, and that is fine with me. You say the hobby hasn't agreed but I would disagree with that. Definitely a portion of the hobby disagrees but the masses seem to accept it. That is good enough for me. 

To me it seems silly though to only want a comic that was "never touched or pressed" especially because you would never know (there are sometimes signs but not always). And if it is encased well, then you will really never know.

All being said, I would not be opposed to CGC ever putting "pressed" or notating in some way on the slab (a tiny star on the back or something trivial) to denote a book they took part in pressing. Maybe such a thing would appease those who view pressing/cleaning restoration 

[MAR1979]

IMHO Pressing should be noted on the slab. 

Pressing produces an unnatural, inorganic flatness to the spine that some collectors like myself do not like.

If I believe a book inside a slab has been pressed I will not purchase. Although some have made it into my collection when I've not viewed the book in person in hand before purchase. This has occurred mainly in 2020 and 2021 due to you know what...

My opinion is pressing is restoration even though 100% original integrity of the book is maintained. As mentioned that is my opinion which I follow to collect the way I prefer to collect and I do not sell comics. All that said I have now sent in 12 books for pressing. In my own inventory database I will make note they were pressed.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by MAR1979

[MattTheDuck]

Is pressing an attempt to "restore" the book to a previous condition?  You could argue it is, but plenty of comics are probably in better shape after a press than they were on the newsstand.  This hobby tends to use words in ways that don't necessarily meet their accepted definitions.

I wonder if we don't need a different word for the goal or end result of some of these things.

[comicginger1789]

What if we call it "non additive structural and visual improvements"? NASVI for short!

NASVI, good....restoration, bad.

[Wheresmymarvelvaluestamp]

On 1/21/2022 at 7:44 AM, PiggyTTV said:

Pressing is definitely a form of restoration because you are improving the appearance/condition of the book by mechanical means. The fact that you can't detect it makes it acceptable to get a Blue label.

Definitely disagree. If you iron a t-shirt, did you restore it? No, it is the same used t-shirt with less wrinkles. Now if you use foreign chemicals such as solvents or use color touch I would definitely consider that restoration because the actual comic has changed. Removing wrinkles did not change the consistency of the comic. Tape is borderline in my opinion. CGC considers tape not restoration as tape usually just holds the original pieces together. I honestly could go either way on tape because it is a foreign material.

[comicginger1789]

On 1/21/2022 at 1:03 PM, Wheresmymarvelvaluestamp said:

Definitely disagree. If you iron a t-shirt, did you restore it? No, it is the same used t-shirt with less wrinkles. Now if you use foreign chemicals such as solvents or use color touch I would definitely consider that restoration because the actual comic has changed. Removing wrinkles did not change the consistency of the comic. Tape is borderline in my opinion. CGC considers tape not restoration as tape usually just holds the original pieces together. I honestly could go either way on tape because it is a foreign material.

Right? But people who are anti-pressing (or get caught up on the language) just prefer to ignore your notions. Which is fine. They feel how they feel. I agree that in theory, an untouched comic that is a 9.0 book SHOULD be worth more than a copy that is 8.0 but with a press got a 9.0. Problem is unless someone tells you, you never know. And does it really matter?

It's like the shirt. If I found a vintage valuable t-shirt that someone stored on a hangar in a closet for 50 years and it gets pulled out and is worth $200

I find the same shirt at a yard sale, wrinkly and maybe even with some dirt on it. I toss it in the wash, give it an iron when done and it presents the same as the other. Should it really be worth less? Or regarded as less? I mean you can get upset that someone beat you to the idea of charging for the washing part of the old shirt before you did....that would be my only upset feelings if I time travelled back to when CGC started doing this. 

[comicginger1789]

The tape one I too am on the fence about. To me, a book with any tape, even minor, should never get above a 5.0 anyways. Maybe you give some leniency Golden Age books and allow as high as 6.0. 

Most books with tape I see are 1.0-3.0 range at best. And the tape isn't improving anything. So I would expect when selling, that a 3.0 with tape sells for less than one without. And I think that generally holds true as not all low grade comics are treated equal even if the grades are. 

[joeypost]

On 1/21/2022 at 9:54 AM, batchainpllr said:

It seems odd to me that CGC will put a purple label on a restored comic even if it's only been cleaned, yet they don't put one on a comic that's been pressed - a service that they offer.

You’re about 16 years late to the discussion. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by joeypost

[Dale Roberts]

On 1/21/2022 at 1:35 PM, joeypost said:

You’re about 16 years late to the discussion. 

And it should have died out waaaaay back then.

 

[Yale Stewart]

I personally really like the new "Conserved" label they've added, and I think C+P could fit under there with no muss or fuss. I'm not very well-versed in the restoration side of collecting, but I'd argue C+P isn't restoration but it IS something, and I think the conservation label fits the bill nicely.

[Wheresmymarvelvaluestamp]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:35 AM, PiggyTTV said:

Yes it did, it improved the comic and maximized it's potential. Why would you press a comic if it wasn't to improve the "consistency" as you weirdly put it? You wouldn't. 

Sorry. Disagree. The same pieces of paper exist and nothing is added or taken away. At the end of the day a comic is paper, ink and staples. Pressing does not add or remove paper, it does not add or remove ink and does not add or remove staples. You can think whatever you want. Your opinions are your own and I respect them. However, I just do not agree. I prefer my books to be in the best shape as possible. I honestly do not care what a presser does to my book as long as it maintains a blue label and looks great. I had an Iron Man 55 where a kid wrote something in pencil on the first page and CGC noted it on the label. I had my presser crack the slab and erase the pencil mark and resubmit it and I am 100% fine with that notation being off of my book now.

[batchainpllr]

On 1/21/2022 at 2:35 PM, joeypost said:

You’re about 16 years late to the discussion. 

 ...  Oh

[Wheresmymarvelvaluestamp]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:17 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Right? But people who are anti-pressing (or get caught up on the language) just prefer to ignore your notions. Which is fine. They feel how they feel. I agree that in theory, an untouched comic that is a 9.0 book SHOULD be worth more than a copy that is 8.0 but with a press got a 9.0. Problem is unless someone tells you, you never know. And does it really matter?

It's like the shirt. If I found a vintage valuable t-shirt that someone stored on a hangar in a closet for 50 years and it gets pulled out and is worth $200

I find the same shirt at a yard sale, wrinkly and maybe even with some dirt on it. I toss it in the wash, give it an iron when done and it presents the same as the other. Should it really be worth less? Or regarded as less? I mean you can get upset that someone beat you to the idea of charging for the washing part of the old shirt before you did....that would be my only upset feelings if I time travelled back to when CGC started doing this. 

In my experience talking to the people that are anti-pressing I have found that they are just butt hurt that other people are maximizing a book's value. They can easily do the same thing but it usually comes down to money and drive. Submitting books is a pain in the for sure and the turnaround times are awful. But I bet if one of these people tried it where they found a bargain book and were able to bump the grade several points they would be hooked. Finding raw books and increasing their value is one of the things I find the most fun. Looking at a book in my hand saying I can fix this or that is exciting. However, it is not for everybody and it is their decision.

[shadroch]

Anything that improves a book should be noted, and an improved book should not sell for what an unimproved book in the same condition does. Pressing is an attempt to improve the book and should always be disclosed. Arguing over if it is restoration or not is just white noise intended to distract from the real question - Should a book altered to look like a 9.whatever  sell for the same as an unaltered copy.

CGC's inability to detect all pressing doesn't excuse them not noting it when they are aware of it. 

[steveinthecity]

On 1/21/2022 at 12:21 PM, batchainpllr said:

 ...  Oh

I wouldn’t sweat it. Those of us who’ve been in the hobby for ages have had and/or heard this discussion countless times.  There’s always newer folks getting interested in comics/comics grading who possibly have questions similar to the one you posed, so there can be benefits for some seeing this topic for the first time.  

Welcome to the boards!