Poekaymon Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) Bit confused about qualified labels. And I have done some searching but gotten some inconsistent opinions. My understanding was that if a book had a major defect, you could ask for a qualified label, and it would be graded without that defect, and with no grade reduction, no matter how bad the defect was. For example: 1. A 9.0 with writing on the cover could either take a Universal grade hit or become a 9.0 Qualified--no grade hit. 2. Similarly, a 7.0 missing an MVS or with advertising cut out could do the same, and become an 7.0 Qualified--no grade hit. 3. On the other hand, a low grade book, say 1.5 or 2.0, will just get a .5 blue label because CGC generally doesn't do Qualified labels under 2.5 or so. These seem mostly verifiable, with very few exceptions, on eBay and trackers. So far so good? Now, my particular case is where I found some differing opinion. I have a couple mid-grade books that are both missing story pages. I had trouble finding examples on eBay of books in the 4.0 - 6.0 range that had qualified labels with *multiple* story pages missing. Looking at forum discussions, numerous people were of the opinion that some defects, like multiple story pages missing, were too much even for Qualifieds and you'd get a reduced grade (even in qualified) or go straight to .5 blue. Then I found this thing: So this bad boy is missing a full 8 pages of story and still got a 7.0 Qualified. Although we can't see that well, my guess is that this book wasn't much higher than that to begin with. So it's not like it's a 9.8 and took a grade hit along with the Qualified. So this seems to support the people that say it doesn't matter what the defect is you can retain the un-defected grade--even with a full third of the book missing. So what I'm trying to figure out is whether or not this is an outlier or if this actually is standard operating procedure. Also, would it be any different if this had multiple defects, such as the 8 missing story pages AND writing on the cover? I ask because I have a couple of relatively high value books that are both missing pages and I am trying to figure out if I should submit them: 1. A book around 5.5 that has two story pages missing. 2. A book around 7.0 that has multiple story pages missing (including some ad pages) plus someone's name on the cover. I'd be happy for both to come back 5.0-6.0 Qualified with the appropriate notations. Thoughts? Edited February 21, 2022 by Poekaymon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 CGC continues to blur the lines regarding Restored and Qualified labels as the years go on. An incomplete book with pages missing that affects story is a NG/0.5 all day, every day. Idk what's going on at HQ, but they got this one wrong. Sauce Dog and ttfitz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poekaymon Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 On 2/21/2022 at 9:10 AM, theCapraAegagrus said: CGC continues to blur the lines regarding Restored and Qualified labels as the years go on. An incomplete book with pages missing that affects story is a NG/0.5 all day, every day. Idk what's going on at HQ, but they got this one wrong. Some people do say that, which is why I made the post. But I kept looking and it's actually not that hard to find qualifieds missing story pages and/or centerfolds. Speaking of centerfolds, I also read someone say that if the centerfold is missing, that is automatic .5 as it is more important than a random page. That's clearly not always correct, but I'm still not sure if these are all outliers or if it is just how it is. The CGC description doesn't really help because the two examples it gives (non-story affecting coupon cut out or name on cover) are the ones we already know. (https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/labels/) Anyway here are some more up right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 On 2/20/2022 at 6:29 PM, Poekaymon said: A 9.0 with writing on the cover could either take a Universal grade hit or become a 9.0 Qualified--no grade hit. So far so good? Actually, no. As far as I know, the only "writing on the cover" that would allow a book to be assigned a Qualified Grade is an unwitnessed creator signature. Not a previous owner's name. Not random notations or scribbles. I'd welcome a scan that shows an exception to this rule. On 2/20/2022 at 6:29 PM, Poekaymon said: Looking at forum discussions, numerous people were of the opinion that some defects, like multiple story pages missing, were too much even for Qualified. Thoughts? As long as your copy has a cover, most of the interior, and has met the "otherwise" condition threshold (which is generally believed to be 4.0 VG), it may be eligible to receive a Qualified Grade. Beyond this, the number and type of missing leaves and/or wraps is irrelevant. Why? Because any book with one or more missing leaves is technically in POOR condition. That would be a CGC Universal Grade of 0.5 PR. grendelbo and Poekaymon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poekaymon Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) On 2/21/2022 at 4:28 PM, zzutak said: Actually, no. As far as I know, the only "writing on the cover" that would allow a book to be assigned a Qualified Grade is an unwitnessed creator signature. Not a previous owner's name. Not random notations or scribbles. I'd welcome a scan that shows an exception to this rule. Thanks for the clarification on this. (Mine with the writing is some kid's name, so I guess it won't even get a notation.) On 2/21/2022 at 4:28 PM, zzutak said: As long as your copy has a cover, most of the interior, and has met the "otherwise" condition threshold (which is generally believed to be 4.0 VG), it may be eligible to receive a Qualified Grade. Beyond this, the number and type of missing leaves and/or wraps is irrelevant. That *may* is what is causing me the most consternation here. Let's just assume that I am accurately grading my book at a 5.0+. So that's well above the general threshhold for qualified. It has an attached cover with good staples. No tape or rips or restoration or any of that. And it's only missing one story page so it has "most" of the interior. So it meets all the conditions I have seen so far. Is it still only a *may* be eligible? If so, do we know any of the other criteria that might make it ineligible, so I can try to verify them first, or does it just boil down to the mood of the person at the time? Edited February 21, 2022 by Poekaymon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 In all honesty, I can't answer your last question. Maybe another board member who knows will chime in. Or, you could Ask CGC. Personally, I'd think twice (or three times) about spending $50~100 to have CGC tell me that my POOR book has moderate VG/FN to FN-ish wear aside from a missing story page -- unless, of course, the book has significant value in 0.5 PR condition. But even then, I'd really be looking for CGC to certify aspects other than structure/wear -- aspects such as completeness and originality (missing or married components, restoration, etc). I believe these aspects would be defined even if the book was encapsulated with a blue rather than green label. Just one man's opinion. grendelbo and Poekaymon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poekaymon Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/21/2022 at 6:58 PM, zzutak said: Personally, I'd think twice (or three times) about spending $50~100 to have CGC tell me that my POOR book has moderate VG/FN to FN-ish wear aside from a missing story page -- unless, of course, the book has significant value in 0.5 PR condition. But even then, I'd really be looking for CGC to certify aspects other than structure/wear -- aspects such as completeness and originality (missing or married components, restoration, etc). I believe these aspects would be defined even if the book was encapsulated with a blue rather than green label. Just one man's opinion. Yes, it has significant value in .5, and, and quite a bit more as a mid-grade Qualified. (The difference being well over $100.) So it's definitely worth it to get a Qualified, but probably not to get a .5 blue--I'd just sell the raw, in that case. Might try the Ask CGC, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 One last thing: when you begin speaking of the "value" of a Green Label slab, you must be very, very careful that you're comparing apples to apples (and not apples to oranges). There are a number of reasons a comic is awarded a Qualified Grade. The market value of a Green Label 6.0 that has a missing page is much less than the market value of a Green Label 6.0 that has an unwitnessed creator signature on the cover. Good luck! Poekaymon, grendelbo and valiantman 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poekaymon Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/21/2022 at 7:27 PM, zzutak said: One last thing: when you begin speaking of the "value" of a Green Label slab, you must be very, very careful that you're comparing apples to apples (and not apples to oranges). There are a number of reasons a comic is awarded a Qualified Grade. The market value of a Green Label 6.0 that has a missing page is much less than the market value of a Green Label 6.0 that has an unwitnessed creator signature on the cover. Good luck! Yeah, understood, I was only looking at Qualifieds with missing pages--not signatures. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 @The Lions Den, are you able to provide any insight as to why CGC doesn't consistently know what the Qualified label is for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/22/2022 at 6:30 AM, theCapraAegagrus said: @The Lions Den, are you able to provide any insight as to why CGC doesn't consistently know what the Qualified label is for? Life isn't the only thing that's like a box of chocolates... onlyweaknesskryptonite, bounty_coder, rexinnih and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnicholas1976 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) I'll never buy another Dynamic Forces signed comic with C.O.A. (or Black Flag for that matter). I made the mistake of sending them to be graded, 3 comics - 2 from Dynamic Forces the other from Black Flag, and found they were graded as qualified. I didn't realize this would happen. However, on the bright side, 2 of them were graded at 9.8. Any opinions or thoughts about this? Kind of seems like they should put something on the label indicating it's Dynamic Forces or Black Flag or something. The seals were unbroken with the COA's inside the sleeve. Doesn't seem right to me. If CGC says that there are lots of forgeries on the COA's but the seals are unbroken how do Dynamic Forces or anyone else justify selling them? How do we know that the COA isn't forged??? Edited May 26, 2022 by jnicholas1976 Troka Cobin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semicentennial Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 On 5/25/2022 at 5:07 PM, jnicholas1976 said: How do we know that the COA isn't forged??? I think this is what CGC is probably thinking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 On 5/25/2022 at 5:07 PM, jnicholas1976 said: I'll never buy another Dynamic Forces signed comic with C.O.A. (or Black Flag for that matter). I made the mistake of sending them to be graded, 3 comics - 2 from Dynamic Forces the other from Black Flag, and found they were graded as qualified. I didn't realize this would happen. Any opinions or thoughts about this? CGC has been 100% consistent on this issue since the company was founded in 2000. Their court, their ball, their rules. It's always a good idea to learn the rules before playing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poekaymon Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 Forgot I made this thread. But since someone bumped it, I'll give an update: I did end up submitting both of my books. Both had multiple story pages missing and one had writing on the cover. Both came back qualified in the grades I roughly expected them to. And both sold for more (I believe) than they would have in .5. So for me it was worth it. Your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnicholas1976 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Here is an example: https://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/p-C130189.html $150.00 for this comic, silver signature series. Not graded by CGC. Send it in and get a qualified grade. Seems absurd to pay that much for an ungraded issue directly from DF and then have it graded to receive a qualified grade. I'm not sure why DF doesn't just have it graded for the buyer and tack on another 50$ then offer it. Ugh, oh well. Thanks for the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 5/26/2022 at 5:00 AM, zzutak said: CGC has been 100% consistent on this issue since the company was founded in 2000. Their court, their ball, their rules. It's always a good idea to learn the rules before playing the game. I still reference your thread, Jay. grendelbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Many thanks, Jeff! I hope all is well. telerites 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
