Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 So I recently purchased almost all the CREEPYs in one fell swoop, after negotiating the price somewhat based on my observations. I think maybe some of the advertised grades had been assigned under less strict pre-2000 grading standards, but I wouldn't think that an 1 1/2" water stain would be acceptably designated as a "NM" copy in any era. I don't really care about the "official" grade, since I'm not looking to re-sell, just to enjoy--but I am curious what effect that one major defect would have on the grade of an otherwise nice-looking book--in the opinion of the experienced graders here. It looks like it would be about an 8.0 without the water stain--but what is it WITH the water stain? Galen130 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Where's the stain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) On 3/8/2022 at 7:21 PM, oakman29 said: Where's the stain? I assume you're kidding. EDIT: Bottom center of the back cover, if you're not. Edited March 9, 2022 by Axe Elf oakman29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 5:37 PM, Axe Elf said: I assume you're kidding. EDIT: Bottom center of the back cover, if you're not. Sorry I was just glancing at the book real quick. I would think stains get the 5.0ish area for me. Thank goodness it was a non important issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 Yeah, at this point I might as well clip that coupon on the back cover to send off for a factory-direct copy of EERIE #17 for 60 cents. Randall Dowling, This is Who We Are and OtherEric 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Februus Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 With a stain like that. I think how much of the interior pages that are affected comes in to the determination.. if it’s just outside on the back cover. If that’s the case .. Just an opinion: I would think I could get a 6.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 10:41 PM, Februus said: With a stain like that. I think how much of the interior pages that are affected comes in to the determination.. if it’s just outside on the back cover. If that’s the case .. Just an opinion: I would think I could get a 6.0 Good point. I originally judged it just from front and back cover pics, so I never really bothered to look at how penetrating it is. In fact, it is clearly visible, but fainter, on the last page (before the back cover), and detectable, but almost invisible if you weren't looking for it on the penultimate page. I see no other water damage anywhere on or in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 Found this thread in the archive, if it helps any... grendelbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendelbo Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 10:05 PM, Axe Elf said: Found this thread in the archive, if it helps any... This is a great example of why this forum is so great when learning to grade. A stain that size, on an otherwise perfect book, would drop the grade to the FN/VF range: 7.0-8.0 IMO. Your Creepy isn't quite perfect though so I'll grade it a little lower. 6.5/7.0 Thanks for sharing. Randall Dowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 I was trying to search for images of CGC graded books with water damage, and I came across this interesting article. It's wild that a big spray of ink on the cover gets a 6.5 grade as a publishing defect, but any kind of visible water damage grades no higher than 4.5 (at least by the Overstreet/CGC guidelines reviewed there). Water Damage Grades I get the poor guy's moral struggle with wanting to break it out of the case and see if he can fool someone into paying an 8.0 price for it--but that would be wrong. (Right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendelbo Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 11:09 PM, Axe Elf said: I was trying to search for images of CGC graded books with water damage, and I came across this interesting article. It's wild that a big spray of ink on the cover gets a 6.5 grade as a publishing defect, but any kind of visible water damage grades no higher than 4.5 (at least by the Overstreet/CGC guidelines reviewed there). Water Damage Grades I get the poor guy's moral struggle with wanting to break it out of the case and see if he can fool someone into paying an 8.0 price for it--but that would be wrong. (Right?) It would be wrong to pass it off as a higher grade. Sell it for whatever you like though, I don't care. I wouldn't buy it. This is why every collector needs some know-how with grading. If you see that Fear 19 and buy it at a VF price, have at it. Stains bother me. The severity and type matter. Doesn't mean I'd avoid it. It would have a place in my collection. But with that water damage I wouldn't pay more than a GD/VG price. I passed on a Fear 19 recently. The copy was clearly pressed and the LCS confirmed they had a go at it. It looked too pancaked for me. They grade well and technically it was probably a 6.5, but I wasn't going to drop more cash than a VG deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:25 AM, grendelbo said: It would be wrong to pass it off as a higher grade. Sell it for whatever you like though, I don't care. I wouldn't buy it. Well, as I said, I'm not going to be selling it, so I don't personally have to fight that battle--and I would never knowingly represent a book as a higher grade than it deserved--but I do identify with WANTING a good-looking book to grade highly, even if it can't technically achieve a high grade. It just seems like the 1 1/2" water stain on the back cover isn't as bad as that nasty ink spray all over the top of the front cover that still got a 6.5. The 4.5 for nothing but a water stain messes with our sense of fairness, even if it's technically sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendelbo Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 11:51 PM, Axe Elf said: It just seems like the 1 1/2" water stain on the back cover isn't as bad as that nasty ink spray all over the top of the front cover that still got a 6.5. The 4.5 for nothing but a water stain messes with our sense of fairness, even if it's technically sound. And I'd defer to my preferences. A stain like on your copy that's 1. a water stain and not pudding, and 2. that's on the back cover, wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Give me two copies of a book, one with ugly distributor overspray and the other with a back cover stain, I'd take the latter. Your Creepy is a great copy. OtherEric and Randall Dowling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 1:00 AM, grendelbo said: And I'd defer to my preferences. A stain like on your copy that's 1. a water stain and not pudding, and 2. that's on the back cover, wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Give me two copies of a book, one with ugly distributor overspray and the other with a back cover stain, I'd take the latter. Your Creepy is a great copy. I agree with all that, and yes, I'm HAPPY with the book, it will read just fine... But, this is a thread in a forum about grading, not preferring. It seems that CGC would esteem the ugly distributor overspray on the front cover a couple of grades higher than the unobtrusive water stain on the back cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendelbo Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:08 AM, Axe Elf said: It seems that CGC would esteem the ugly distributor overspray on the front cover a couple of grades higher than the unobtrusive water stain on the back cover. Distributor overspray is a "natural" defect of comic book production and distributing. Still, it'll lower a grade even on otherwise high-grade books depending on it's severity. IMO, once you get to the FN range it doesn't matter much unless it's something like this: Stains are care and handling defects. I think they should be treated harsher. But it's all just opinions in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 1:21 AM, grendelbo said: Stains are care and handling defects. I think they should be treated harsher. But it's all just opinions in the end. Is it? I agreed that it is, when it comes to preferences. But when it comes to grading, in the end, isn't there an objective standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 Maybe @CGC Mike should give us a nice clean book with a big fat water stain on the back cover in the next Grading Contest, and see if we can't pump up those standard deviations a notch or two. grendelbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendelbo Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:37 AM, Axe Elf said: Is it? I agreed that it is, when it comes to preferences. But when it comes to grading, in the end, isn't there an objective standard? Yeah, handling defects > production defects. On 3/9/2022 at 12:40 AM, Axe Elf said: Maybe @CGC Mike should give us a nice clean book with a big fat water stain on the back cover in the next Grading Contest, and see if we can't pump up those standard deviations a notch or two. +1 That's basically what I suggested - books with an unique and perhaps singular defect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendelbo Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 BTW, did you land a Creepy 1 with that recent, nearly complete haul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 1:45 AM, grendelbo said: BTW, did you land a Creepy 1 with that recent, nearly complete haul? Indeed. The crown jewel. grendelbo and This is Who We Are 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
