Kirby fans opinion on Mister Miracle. 3 3

[MR SigS]

Love Mister Miracle 

 

[Zonker]

This brings up a bit of a mystery that has puzzled me for a while

 

This was the teaser at the end of Mister Miracle #14.  The next issue instead introduced Shilo Norman, without any significant emphasis on Barda that I can recall.  We know Kirby would occasionally veer off in a different direction entirely from one issue to the next, but I can't help wondering what might have been if he had stuck to his original plan: would we have gotten another flashback episode like "The Pact" or "Himon," this time showing what happened to Barda on Apokolips after Scott Free escaped the first time? 

I don't recall seeing this addressed in any of the mountains of documentation TwoMorrows has been generating over the last number of years covering Kirby's output.  Anybody know anything about this?

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Zonker
reads better this way!

[Ken Aldred]

More flashbacks on Apokolips would’ve been good.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm a fan of Kirby's Marvel work. Have yet to see any of his DC stuff that I would like.

[Zonker]

On 4/7/2022 at 10:58 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I'm a fan of Kirby's Marvel work. Have yet to see any of his DC stuff that I would like.

Is that because you prefer the Lee/Kirby paradigm?  Or are you talking about Kirby's solo work at Marvel, such as the 1970s Captain America, The Eternals, 2001, etc?

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:03 PM, Zonker said:

Is that because you prefer the Lee/Kirby paradigm?  Or are you talking about Kirby's solo work at Marvel, such as the 1970s Captain America, The Eternals, 2001, etc?

That was a great duo, IMO. I took a brief look at The Eternals (prior to the movie) and was uninterested. That, and Fourth World, lead me to think that I just cannot get into anything he wrote.

[Zonker]

And that's a completely valid perspective.  The Lee/Kirby duo taught a couple of generations how super-hero comics were done.  

Lately I've started hanging out on the Reddit subgroup OmnibusCollectors, as they always have the latest intelligence on when hardcover books are going on sale at the various sites.  About every other week a new thread is posted on there by someone just finishing up the collected works of Bendis, or Hickman or Brubaker or whomever and asking opinions about whether to pick up earlier volumes featuring the same characters written by the likes of Stan Lee or Roy Thomas (sometimes even Chris Claremont gets this treatment!) because "that Silver Age stuff is so painful to read." 

It's all what you're used to, I suppose.

[Mr bla bla]

On 4/6/2022 at 8:59 PM, Zonker said:

Mister Miracle was I think the most uneven of Kirby's original DC tetralogy.  #1 is quite a bit weaker than Forever People #1, New Gods #1 or Jimmy #133/134 in terms of introducing new mind-blowing concepts.  #2 debuts Granny Goodness, but sets the tone for a lot of what was to come: gimmicky resolutions using previously-unmentioned.Apokolips technology to solve a plot problem.  I thought #3 was great (Doctor Bedlam sets off everyone in a skyscraper to attack Mister Miracle, who somehow has to work his way down to the ground floor to escape from that building).  The follow up in #4 introduces Barda, but had a gimmicky cop-out ending to the problem posed in #3.  #5 was another gimmicky resolution.  #6 was the hatchet job on Stan Lee and Roy Thomas (could have been great with a lighter touch, but this one came across as just mean, and out of character for Kirby).  

I thought the high point of Kirby's original run was his excellent #7-#9, with Scott Free returning to Apokolips to "earn" his freedom by legitimately escaping again.  #9 was his back story, equally well-told as "The Pact" in New Gods #7.  But at that point, New Gods & Forever People were about to be cancelled, and Kirby abandoned the Fourth World mythology for the remainder of his Mister Miracle run.  Kirby's final issue #18 was I thought the best of the back half of his issues.

Nice summary / breakdown 👍

[Mr bla bla]

On 4/6/2022 at 10:33 PM, Laszlo the Mudjar said:

Do I become a creepy old man if I admit Barda in uniform does more for me than bikini Barda???

 

Keep in mind: Big Barda is a godess💪

[Mr bla bla]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:34 AM, DavidTheDavid said:

I love the character.

I encourage Mister Miracle fans to read Tom King's and Mitch Gerard's Mister Miracle if they haven't already. I was struggling as the parent of a small child when I read it, and it was really moving.

Kings take on MM is reaaaaaly good!!

[Prince Namor]

On 4/7/2022 at 1:46 PM, Zonker said:

And that's a completely valid perspective.  The Lee/Kirby duo taught a couple of generations how super-hero comics were done.  

Lately I've started hanging out on the Reddit subgroup OmnibusCollectors, as they always have the latest intelligence on when hardcover books are going on sale at the various sites.  About every other week a new thread is posted on there by someone just finishing up the collected works of Bendis, or Hickman or Brubaker or whomever and asking opinions about whether to pick up earlier volumes featuring the same characters written by the likes of Stan Lee or Roy Thomas (sometimes even Chris Claremont gets this treatment!) because "that Silver Age stuff is so painful to read." 

It's all what you're used to, I suppose.

Yes, it's unfortunate that many who don't like Kirby's 70's work, are people who grew up on Silver Age Marvel's and their habit of over pontificating every panel with wanna-be hipster dialogue. I get the popularity of it, I still can enjoy it in small doses, but to me, the art tells the story better than any words ever could. For some though... when all you've ever read is stories that are spelled out for you, I guess it's hard for some people to move beyond that.

The 4th World was cut off way too early. It's impossible to judge Kirby by it as a complete work, because it was nowhere near complete. If Thor had ended at Journey Into Mystery #102 (the first 19 issues), it wouldn't be seen as anywhere NEAR what we see it today. If the Fantastic Four had been cut off at 19 issues in... it would've missed out on so MUCH of what made it great.

Realistically it's AMAZING what Kirby accomplished and created by himself in just that short space of time...

It's a drag that DC was so unable to recognize what could've been. 

 

 

[LowGradeBronze]

Kirby as a designer shows through and I feel he was truly in his element, unrestricted by anyone with the initials SL.

[Chaykin Stevens]

On 4/6/2022 at 11:12 PM, aardvark88 said:

For the younger generation, MM #19-25 had incredible Marshall Rogers, Mike Golden covers, interior art, good lettering.

I think the only Mister Miracle cover Golden drew was the unpublished one intended for MM #26 (the cover to #24 was by Rogers and #25's was by Russ Heath from a layout by Al Milgrom).

Edited April 7, 2022 by Chaykin Stevens

[FoggyNelson]

All Kirby is great all era all times‼️🎶👍

[kav]

On 4/7/2022 at 5:11 AM, Zonker said:

This brings up a bit of a mystery that has puzzled me for a while

 

This was the teaser at the end of Mister Miracle #14.  The next issue instead introduced Shilo Norman, without any significant emphasis on Barda that I can recall.  We know Kirby would occasionally veer off in a different direction entirely from one issue to the next, but I can't help wondering what might have been if he had stuck to his original plan: would we have gotten another flashback episode like "The Pact" or "Himon," this time showing what happened to Barda on Apokolips after Scott Free escaped the first time? 

I don't recall seeing this addressed in any of the mountains of documentation TwoMorrows has been generating over the last number of years covering Kirby's output.  Anybody know anything about this?

 

@glendgold

[glendgold]

On 4/7/2022 at 2:59 PM, kav said:

@glendgold

As I recall (I don't have it handy) there's something in a fairly recent JKC about this, but it's not an answer, just the same questions you have.  Jack really took his foot off the gas around then and the Mister Miracle books are kinda aimless.  Editorial interference? Apathy because the other books had been cancelled?

[kav]

On 4/7/2022 at 3:43 PM, glendgold said:

As I recall (I don't have it handy) there's something in a fairly recent JKC about this, but it's not an answer, just the same questions you have.  Jack really took his foot off the gas around then and the Mister Miracle books are kinda aimless.  Editorial interference? Apathy because the other books had been cancelled?

thx Glen.

[Muno42]

I love the Kirby 4th World books. The ideas were literally bursting out of his head faster than he could put pencil to paper. On the other hand, Eternals was a half-hearted attempt to try the world building after having to return to Marvel.

[Mr bla bla]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:32 AM, Muno42 said:

I love the Kirby 4th World books. The ideas were literally bursting out of his head faster than he could put pencil to paper. On the other hand, Eternals was a half-hearted attempt to try the world building after having to return to Marvel.

Also Kamandi seems to be a completely manic tour de force of ideas and concepts pouring out in the usual Kirby Gonzo style. Love it!

[ThothAmon]

These were put out by Kirby during this time period. Twice Up sized portfolio.