Paper Quality - Silver Age vs Bronze Age 2 2

[James Flewelling]

I am fairly new so this question may seem basic, but can anyone speak to the differences in paper quality from Silver Age to Bronze. I have a number of silver age books, some graded in the 3.5-4.5 range and a lot of ungraded but we’ll cared for books from the 80’s. All Marvel. It may be me  but paper, and maybe even printing quality in the early 80’s books looks poorer than my older silver age books. The books are in good shape (at least fine to very fine) but when compared to their 60’s counterparts the ink doesn’t appear as sharp and the pages less white. Just wondering if anyone else has come across this? 

[shadroch]

The 1980s saw a lot of experimenting with papers and inks and some of thbe results were awful.  It's a personal choice but I found DCs use of "mando paper" and the inks they used gave off some horrible results.  Comics in the 60s were printed on cheap paper. By the 1980s, Baxter paper that was super bright was coming in, and "mando paper" was seen as a cheaper alternative. Cheaper than Baxter but better than newsprint. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by shadroch

[Ken Aldred]

On 5/18/2022 at 2:27 PM, shadroch said:

The 1980s saw a lot of experimenting with papers and inks and some of thbe results were awful.  It's a personal choice but I found DCs use of "mando paper" and the inks they used gave off some horrible results.

The time of the horrible experiment with garish Flexographic printing.

[Cat]

Wasn't it also due to the new flexographic printing process they began using in the 80's?

Edit: Ninjaed by mere milliseconds by @Ken Aldred. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Cat

[Ken Aldred]

Looking back, the newsprint quality in the late 70s was quite poor; dull, grey, and didn’t do justice to the artwork, which often looks much, much better in recent, remastered form.

[Ken Aldred]

On 5/18/2022 at 2:31 PM, Cat said:

Wasn't it also due to the new flexographic printing process they began using in the 80's?

Edit: Ninjaed by mere milliseconds by @Ken Aldred. 

I apologise.

Anyone could see immediately from the results of the Flexographic process, from a single comic book,  that it looked absolutely hideous compared to conventional printing, and it’s hard to see why they bothered with it for so long.

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Ken Aldred

[Cat]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:39 PM, Ken Aldred said:

I apologise.

Anyone could see immediately from the results of the Flexographic process, from a single comic book,  that it looked absolutely hideous, and it’s hard to see why they bothered with it for so long.

 

I recall reading some fascinating stuff about it and how it affected (degraded) Jim Lee's fantastic work on X-Men #1. I think the commentary was by Scott Williams. I know he's a member here, but I can't remember his username to tag him. It was pointed out how it decimated fine details on 2 page spreads, and showed it compared to the original, much sharper inked art. Now that's all I see when I look at that book. 

[chrisco37]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:46 AM, Cat said:

I recall reading some fascinating stuff about it and how it affected (degraded) Jim Lee's fantastic work on X-Men #1. I think the commentary was by Scott Williams. I know he's a member here, but I can't remember his username to tag him. It was pointed out how it decimated fine details on 2 page spreads, and showed it compared to the original, much sharper inked art. Now that's all I see when I look at that book. 

@stinkininkin

He usually stays in OA forum, but maybe he’ll check this out.

[Cat]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:51 PM, chrisco37 said:

@stinkininkin

He usually stays in OA forum, but maybe he’ll check this out.

Thanks Chris. I did find part of the discussion I was thinking of. Here's the link if anyone's interested: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/x-men-jim-lee-double-page-spread-quality/amp/

[shadroch]

On 5/18/2022 at 6:39 AM, Ken Aldred said:

I apologise.

Anyone could see immediately from the results of the Flexographic process, from a single comic book,  that it looked absolutely hideous compared to conventional printing, and it’s hard to see why they bothered with it for so long.

 

I was involved in a retailer group at the time and I recall discussing this at one of our monthly meetings.  While most owners didn't think much of the new inks and paper stocks, some people loved it.   It must have been tough on editors and production seeing how they were using several types of paper and printing processes.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don't own much Silver or Bronze floppies, but oddly enough I did recognize early-on that the latter seemed worse. Wasn't sure if it was the condition of books I was looking at, but this is great information to know.

[LowGradeBronze]

Early Bronze, around 1970/71 paper quality improved for both interior and covers, compared to Silver. But later Bronze yes, the paper became very thin again and I know what you mean about grey rather than white, especially as it ages. (Can someone advise the dates of Marvel's flexographic era as I'd like to see if I have any in my collection I can dig out and have a look at. Thanks!)

[James Flewelling]

All great information! Do the graders take this into account when evaluating a book? 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:10 PM, James Flewelling said:

All great information! Do the graders take this into account when evaluating a book? 

They're familiar with the differences in paper quality throughout the ages.

[Ken Aldred]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:31 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

Can someone advise the dates of Marvel's flexographic era as I'd like to see if I have any in my collection I can dig out and have a look at. Thanks!)

Mid 1980s.

[LowGradeBronze]

Thanks Ken. I've since found this page on flexography...(from Marvel Age 33, Dec 1985)...might be of interest.

https://comiconlinefree.net/marvel-age/issue-33/11

Edited May 21, 2022 by LowGradeBronze

[LowGradeBronze]

Does anyone know what printing change took place at Marvel in December 1989? (Apologies to OP, as this drags topic outside Silver/Bronze.) 

Case in point, Classic X Men 41 from Dec 1989, (reprints #135,) which was a 'regular' accurate reprint on newsprint, then along comes Classic X Men 42 in mid December '89 and the colours are suddenly brighter, sharper print definition and slightly whiter paper. 

Anyone recognise this shift in printing technique? It continues to at least #47 (where my run of the title ends.)

Spidey, Doc and SS come from 41 and Phoenix is from 42 hopefully showing the difference in printing.

Edited May 21, 2022 by LowGradeBronze

[Ken Aldred]

On 5/21/2022 at 9:10 AM, LowGradeBronze said:

Thanks Ken. I've since found this page on flexography...(from Marvel Age 33, Dec 1985)...might be of interest.

https://comiconlinefree.net/marvel-age/issue-33/11

Thanks for showing me that.  It gives me a better understanding about why the process appealed to some readers but not to others, like myself.  "More colourful, brighter", in my case, translates to "too loud".  I tend to prefer a more subdued presentation than you got with flexography, a bit like my TV settings.