Question about buying collections 6 6

[Bird]

On 5/30/2022 at 10:02 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

Mostly 2, sometimes 3 when moving boxes. 

I meant how many are in the business, how many are sharing the risk/cost. How many are committed to moving the books? (who owns them)

I know there are boardie partnerships, wondering if you are in that alone and you bought 30K books by your lonesome. Is the we your spouse (wifey sits next to me at the 3 shows I have ever done in 5 years)

Edited May 30, 2022 by Bird

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 5/30/2022 at 9:05 AM, Bird said:

I meant how many are in the business, how many are sharing the risk/cost. How many are committed to moving the books? (who owns them)

I know there are boardie partnerships, wondering if you are in that alone and you bought 30K books by your lonesome.

I was still editing my comment when you quoted me, but the answer is 3.  It was 2, but we brought in a third because they always helped with shows anyway, so we just made it a 3 way deal.  We already had a running inventory of 3-5K books for a decade prior with just 2.  this was not the start of our selling.

[shadroch]

 

Someone mentioned how people with dollar boxes always seem to be the busiest.  Is that your goal at a show? To be the busiest, and work the hardest?  To sell a couple thousand dollar books to reduce inventory you shouldn't have bought in the first place?  That is a way to make money but is it the best way for you ?

Someone else mentioned triage the collection and selling half of it at cost.  Lets look at that for a minute.  How much labor and effort went into working on a collection that resulted in half of it being sold at cost.    If you initially bought 20,000 books and after many hours of labor, you sold them at cost,  you'd go broke overnite.  Now you only sold half of them at cost, after putting in lots of work and then the labor to part them out to dealers- at your original cost but not counting your time or labor. 

You might have paid ten cents for the books, but you put another ten cents of labor and time into it so when you sold it at the original cost, you lost money on each book.  That money has to come from the remaining inventory, so the cost of those goods just doubled.

If you bought the books at ten cents each, transported them, stored them, sorted them and then sell half of them at your original costs, you aren't breaking even on them.  you are drowning and not even realizing it.

Everyone likes to talk about the one great collection they once found, but the reality is most collections you get offered are 90% filler.  

There was a time that I had well over 100,000 books and am pretty sure I may have broken 200,00 but as I was outgrowing my old storage facilty, I realized I was paying rent for books I was never going to sell.  Instead of expanding, I bulked out almost half and used the money to pay the years storage.  In one swoop, I went from paying storage on 200K books to in effect having free storage for half that.    

Many people think bulk buying works best, and can point to their successes as proof.  Others prefer to cherry pick.  Cherry picking works great for me,

I'd rather have two hundred books and turn over ten percent a month than 200,000 books and turn over one percent a month. 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by shadroch

[Bird]

On 5/30/2022 at 11:17 AM, shadroch said:

There was a time that I had well over 100,000 books and am pretty sure I may have broken 200,00 but as I was outgrowing my old storage facilty, I realized I was paying rent for books I was never going to sell.  Instead of expanding, I bulked out almost half and used the money to pay the years storage.  In one swoop, I went from paying storage on 200K books to in effect having free storage for half that. 

I don't understand people who have storage units full of comics. Why accumulate so many, there has to be a metric to determine how many you should have based on how many you sell a year (if one even knows)? I agree you made the right decision to cut in half.

I know someone who does shows every weekend almost and usually only brings 50 cent boxes and dollar boxes. All "paid for" with the minor wall books he sells.

On 5/30/2022 at 11:17 AM, shadroch said:

Everyone likes to talk about the one great collection they once found, but the reality is most collections you get offered are 90% filler.  

 wifey found it and I bought it (but only 9500 books, not 95000!)

Edited May 30, 2022 by Bird

[shadroch]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:38 AM, Bird said:

I don't understand people who have storage units full of comics. Why accumulate so many, there has to be a metric to determine how many you should have based on how many you sell a year (if one even knows)? I agree you made the right decision to cut in half.

I know someone who does shows every weekend almost and usually only brings 50 cent boxes and dollar boxes. All "paid for" with the minor wall books he sells.

 wifey found it and I bought it (but only 9500 books, not 95000!)

I think if most weekend warriors ever did a serious accounting, they'd realize they'd be better off staying home.  

In my case, stores were closing down all over and I was picking up inventory for pennies.  In one situation , a guy had bought 500 sealed  boxes from Glenwoods going out of business sale.  He'd bought them three years earlier for  three cents a book and wanted to double his money.  10,000 new books for six cents each seemed like a no brainer at the time.   These days I know better.

 

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 5/30/2022 at 10:17 AM, shadroch said:

 

Someone else mentioned triage the collection and selling half of it at cost.  Lets look at that for a minute.  How much labor and effort went into working on a collection that resulted in half of it being sold at cost.    If you initially bought 20,000 books and after many hours of labor, you sold them at cost,  you'd go broke overnite.  Now you only sold half of them at cost, after putting in lots of work and then the labor to part them out to dealers- at your original cost but not counting your time or labor. 

You might have paid ten cents for the books, but you put another ten cents of labor and time into it so when you sold it at the original cost, you lost money on each book.  That money has to come from the remaining inventory, so the cost of those goods just doubled.

If you bought the books at ten cents each, transported them, stored them, sorted them and then sell half of them at your original costs, you aren't breaking even on them.  you are drowning and not even realizing it.

Everyone likes to talk about the one great collection they once found, but the reality is most collections you get offered are 90% filler.  

There was a time that I had well over 100,000 books and am pretty sure I may have broken 200,00 but as I was outgrowing my old storage facilty, I realized I was paying rent for books I was never going to sell.  Instead of expanding, I bulked out almost half and used the money to pay the years storage.  In one swoop, I went from paying storage on 200K books to in effect having free storage for half that.    

Many people think bulk buying works best, and can point to their successes as proof.  Others prefer to cherry pick.  Cherry picking works great for me,

I'd rather have two hundred books and turn over ten percent a month than 200,000 books and turn over one percent a month. 

 

umm, I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong! 

You bulked out 100K books to get "free" storage? Not sure how that math works.  Not as well as my selling half a collection at cost. Yeah it took time to triage, that was almost the fun of it, but not nearly as much time as you're implying. That time went into identifying what was worth keeping, and that's time well spent.  As I said, I was in the black in a few months. A few months 7 years ago. I don't sell at flea markets or swap meets on a weekly basis.  I think the max number of shows we did in a year was 6, and 3-4 of those were one day shows. Cherry picking at this phase in your hoarding collecting  makes sense for you I guess and manages your PTCD (Post-Traumatic Collecting Disorder) after having 100-200K books. Ok, I'll give you some room to freak out there, but your math on cherry picking versus buying an entire collecting is still suspect. Math is math. I cherry picked it too, after I bought it, to it's maximum potential relative to the amount of effort I was willing to put into it. My ROI is unassailable. If I had cherry picked it, I'd likely have invested much of the profit into another collection to maintain a perpetual inventory worth taking to a show a few times a year.

[lordbyroncomics]

Isn't the general thought behind bulk collections of thousands of books that the vast majority of said collections consists of 90s' speculation books and such, and there's only a small percentage of anything worthwhile? 

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 5/30/2022 at 1:46 PM, wisbyron said:

Isn't the general thought behind bulk collections of thousands of books that the vast majority of said collections consists of 90s' speculation books and such, and there's only a small percentage of anything worthwhile? 

I think a lot of that gunk got cycled through 15 years ago. Scads of it went in the dumpster. I don't see it at shows, store or flea markets.  I'm sure theres a few boomers with a palette of it amongst there other mega-hoard collection but what I see in dollar boxes these days is New 52 2nd tier titles and IDW books. Once in awhile you see beater copies of Trencher 3 and Prophet 2, and Brigade #5 is in a stack in some antique dealers booth, which is where comics go to die (it used to be photo-cover westerns, Classics Illustrated, and anything Gold Key.)

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/30/2022 at 3:19 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

I think a lot of that gunk got cycled through 15 years ago. Scads of it went in the dumpster. I don't see it at shows, store or flea markets.  I'm sure theres a few boomers with a palette of it amongst there other mega-hoard collection but what I see in dollar boxes these days is New 52 2nd tier titles and IDW books. Once in awhile you see beater copies of Trencher 3 and Prophet 2, and Brigade #5 is in a stack in some antique dealers booth, which is where comics go to die (it used to be photo-cover westerns, Classics Illustrated, and anything Gold Key.)

I remember a guy a couple years ago had a plan to buy as many copies of stuff like X-Force #1 and Superman #75 etc etc and then burn them in a bonfire and put it on YouTube with the logic that he'd slowly but surely make them less copious and therefore less "clogging up the pipes" as he put it. I asked him if he thought this would increase value and he claimed that wasn't his intention, but just to make these things less common when flipping through boxes. Not sure if he ever did it but I'd be curious what the response would be had he did.

[shadroch]

When I started buying collections in the 1970s, it made sense to buy just about anything as back issues were in demand and almost always went up in value.  I'd do two shows each month and often buy out another vendors stock at the end of the show.  I opened a shop and when I outgrew it I opened a second  one. Back issues were still a large part of the business.  Shows were cheap and dedicated to comics.  Now they are expensive and 80% of the attendees don't care about comics. 

The hobby has evolved so much since then and yet many dealers haven't.  Buyers tastes and methods of buying are very different than they were forty years ago, as times evolved, I came to the conclusion buying whole collections no longer makes sense for me.  I have a formula that works for me.  It doesn't involve buying everything I'm offered.  It doesn't make sense for me to buy a run of Defenders from 1-152 when 140 of them will end up in the dollar box with my other mistakes. 

 

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 5/30/2022 at 2:37 PM, shadroch said:

When I started buying collections in the 1970s, it made sense to buy just about anything as back issues were in demand and almost always went up in value.  I'd do two shows each month and often buy out another vendors stock at the end of the show.  I opened a shop and when I outgrew it I opened a second  one. Back issues were still a large part of the business.  Shows were cheap and dedicated to comics.  Now they are expensive and 80% of the attendees don't care about comics. 

The hobby has evolved so much since then and yet many dealers haven't.  Buyers tastes and methods of buying are very different than they were forty years ago, as times evolved, I came to the conclusion buying whole collections no longer makes sense for me.  I have a formula that works for me.  It doesn't involve buying everything I'm offered.  It doesn't make sense for me to buy a run of Defenders from 1-152 when 140 of them will end up in the dollar box with my other mistakes. 

 

and I agree with all of this- and I don't buy all that's offered me unless there's clearly substantial upside that more resembles buying collections pre-90's.  I would take that run of Defenders #1-152 though. I think that's one that has upside in the next 10 years. M2in1 as well. 

 

[MyNameIsLegion]

I will also say that most speculative buyers now, fueled in part by CGC only buy keys, so there's a lot less run fillers out there. They're there, but 20 years from now I think that breed of collector is literally retired or dead.

[Hamlet]

 

 

On 5/30/2022 at 10:17 AM, shadroch said:

 

Someone mentioned how people with dollar boxes always seem to be the busiest.  Is that your goal at a show? To be the busiest, and work the hardest?  To sell a couple thousand dollar books to reduce inventory you shouldn't have bought in the first place?  That is a way to make money but is it the best way for you ?

 

Honestly, this seems like the main reason to set up at a show these days.  For the more expensive books, why bother selling at a show at all?  Just ship them off to MCS and sell them without the hassle of getting off of the couch.

I rarely buy expensive books at a show these days.  The prices aren’t generally great on wall books, since they are hard for the sellers to replace.  I buy the under $10 books that don’t make sense to buy with shipping factored in.  To me, shows are about leaving with stacks of inexpensive books.  The keys can all be easily bought and sold online, so why bother setting up at a show to sell them?

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Hamlet

[shadroch]

On 5/31/2022 at 6:43 AM, Hamlet said:

 

 

Honestly, this seems like the main reason to set up at a show these days.  For the more expensive books, why bother selling at a show at all?  Just ship them off to MCS and sell them without the hassle of getting off of the couch.

I rarely buy expensive books at a show these days.  The prices aren’t generally great on wall books, since they are hard for the sellers to replace.  I buy the under $10 books that don’t make sense to buy with shipping factored in.  To me, shows are about leaving with stacks of inexpensive books.  The keys can all be easily bought and sold online, so why bother setting up at a show to sell them?

 

If I can't sell wall books and can expect the majority of my sales to be inexpensive books at bargain prices, perhaps I'm better off not having these books to begin with.

MCS has certainly changed the way I sell books.  I sold two books yesterday for $383. I'll clear about $250 from them.   When you factor in prep time, travel time, gas ,meals and such, I rarely clear much more at a local show., and I didn't have to move twenty boxes of comics round trip.

[comicginger1789]

On 5/24/2022 at 5:08 PM, GMcGurty said:

Recently, I decided to sell my personal collection. In doing so, I found I rather enjoy the whole process of grading each one, listing them and selling them. (Making some money is nice too!) Eventually, I’ll need more inventory, so I was thinking about buying some collections, but I really don’t know what would be a fair offer. I really don’t wanna insult anyone, but I don’t wanna screw myself either. So many people selling comic books nowadays think they are sitting on a gold mine and have priced each and every single comic. In  looking at their collections, I’d see a few that might sell quickly, but I think the majority would sell quite slowly. I’ve been offering around 10% of what the max potential value is, but with some collections, even that seems high!! (The guys seem quite insulted!!)  Anyone willing to give me a few pointers??? 

Um most people would be insulted. If I had 100 books that I valued at $1000 but priced at $750 and you offered me $100, I would gladly never do business with you ever again.

Now, I am not one who buys and sells to try to make money. However, I do tend to average 2-5 larger buys (500+ comics) per year. I try to place my starting offers around 50% of the perceived value in these cases at bare minimum and usually end up paying 60-70% of the actual value. Again, because for me I would rather spend $2000 on a collection, keeps 50-100 books for myself and sell the remaining to break even. That is the goal for me. If money making is your goal, obviously your percentages might be lower but 10% is insulting.  

[comicginger1789]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:20 AM, Prince Namor said:

It's best if you have a store, but if you're a small dealer and just like to have drek stock that you can sell for a $1 a book it works out too. Most small shows I go to, the drek dealer always has the most activity. So the key is to get that junk for free. 

As a small scale example: I would find the comics I actually wanted in a collection and figure out - say on a collection of 1000 books - if I can buy these 10  for $1000, I can at least double my money. I'd then offer $1000 for everything.

If they refused, I'd say, ok, how about $800 for these 10? Which was actually an even better deal for me. If they say no to the first offer, they almost ALWAYS went for that second offer because it just LOOKS like a hugely better deal.

If they sell me everything then:

I'd almost always find even more surprises in closer inspection of the other 990 books, and then the rest went into the dollar bin for the store or show stock. 

I'd make my money back on the 10 and then everything else was free stock.

Anytime I wanted to have a 3 for $1 sale on the $1 bin books, it never really mattered because it was all free stock.

 

Oh and... when someone thinks their drek is worth more than it is. No thank you. Simple as that.

Never want what you don't need. Desperation as a seller or a buyer is just going to get you into trouble. 

They want the most for their book?

Tell them: "Oh! You want to go to ebay, and do the work - grade the books, make sure you grade them properly - take the time to scan them all, and post each and every one of them, write the information - ebay wants more information added than ever before - wait and wait and wait for someone to buy one of these $1 books with $8 postage (shipping is more expensive than ever before) and then pack it so that it doesn't get damaged - you have plenty of packing materials on hand? there's some added cost, Walmart will be happy to charge you for - go to the post office, wait in line and then wait for PayPal to clear your money and after ebay takes their cut and PayPal takes their cut and you do all that work - you get about 60 cents on your $1 book - then you have to deal with returns and shady customers and chargebacks and "my son accidentally pushed the buy it now button" and..."

 

This....100%

Also, it seems I too have had someone's son accidentally click Buy It Now. Must be a common phenomenon.

 

[lordbyroncomics]

For people who often purchase or at least consider buying collections, may I ask how much an estimation of the collection's entire value matters? For example, if this collection is logged on GPA or CovrPrice does it help or is it irrelevant? 

[Beige]

1) 10% is taking the

2) Never cherry-pick. There's always a dumping auction house / second hand store that will buy the drek

3) If you cherry-pick, expect sellers to reach for ebay to check the prices.

 

Ignore the peeps moaning about their failures to shift drek. That's on them for not being set up to get rid of that easily before they buy stuff.

[shadroch]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:15 AM, wisbyron said:

For people who often purchase or at least consider buying collections, may I ask how much an estimation of the collection's entire value matters? For example, if this collection is logged on GPA or CovrPrice does it help or is it irrelevant? 

Having a printout or access to a collections database would cut hours off the time needed to make an offer.  If I spend two days making an inventory, I'm factoring that in to my offer.  I'd say anything a seller can do to ease the inspection is great, but I wouldn't pay any attention to the prices on the sites.

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/31/2022 at 4:30 PM, shadroch said:

Having a printout or access to a collections database would cut hours off the time needed to make an offer.  If I spend two days making an inventory, I'm factoring that in to my offer.  I'd say anything a seller can do to ease the inspection is great, but I wouldn't pay any attention to the prices on the sites.

Thank you. It's something I've been dwelling on the past month and a half