What exactly are "warehouse finds"?

[PedigreeMan]

First off, thank you, Vince, for proving my points that you a) Have no idea what you're talking about, and b) Attempt to browbeat a subject into submission.

 

Now let's dispell some of Vince's inaccuracies:

 

On the matter of me being a "bud of Chuck's": I exchanged a handful of emails with him about the Church pedigree a few years ago. Back in 1999, I ordered a few hundred dollars worth of reader copies for my own comics horde from Mile High Comics. In January of 2003, I placed a substantial order with MHC for 15 Dallas Stephens books that were also from the Salida pedigree. Neither one of these transactions involved Chuck personally, although I did deal with Will Moulton on the latter, and I found him to be quite gentlemanly. I have never met Chuck in person. In fact, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a bit ticked off at Chuck at the moment as he never answered an email inquiry I sent him over the summer about the provenance of a purported Edgar Church book. Also in the interest of full disclosure, I have exchanged a handful of emails and PMs with forum member `ghoulaid,' who is a long time buddy of Chuck's, and found him to be gentlemanly as well.

 

On the matter of me "painting Chuckles as some Knight in Shining Armor": From my original post: "Now am I saying that Chuck was a saint through all of this? Of course not. The ethical dilemma he faced and the path he ultimately chose will be debated forever." And JC thinks Chuck embellishes things?

 

On the matter of my "callous reply as to his [Edgar Church's] actual condition [while in the nursing home]": My stating of the facts is far from callous, and I resent your accusation. The fact is that Edgar Church spent over a year in the Iliff Nursing Care Center before he died. I'm certain he was not in a coma during this time, and I'm sure he wasn't "lawn bowling with his elderly pals and dancing with the old ladies," either. The man was 89 years old and at the end of his life. I'm sure he spent his time like all others do in his condition.

 

On the matter of "Chuckles as the White Knight" scenario ... being used as the "gospel truth" in some pedigree book or other publication: More conjecture on Vince's part. My research on this matter has been exhaustive and has included many different sources independent of Chuck's telling in his "Tales From the Database" articles. I have presented the facts as I know them, and have included personal experiences to back up my speculation on the mindset of the Church relatives. I welcome any and all valid information that counters anything I have said thus far. User `1962' will attest to this, as I was the one who kept pushing him to essentially "ambush" Church's daughter into giving him her side of the story. He declined this request. I'll leave the ethical debate of that one up to the peanut gallery, but I will admit to being quite draconian when it comes to information. Maybe I shoulda been a journalist.

 

Vince, I really, really, really wish you would stop with the inaccurate statements. You do everyone a disservice when you cloud the waters with your falsehoods.

 

Al

[Ze-man]

Great post, Alan.

 

Wow, now it's an official meeting of the anti-JC club.

 

 

 

No...no no not yet.. Scott is still on his honeymoon so the meeting is not official yet.

As I recall did you not go ring around the rosey with FFB about this same topic only recently?( or were you still not back yet?) If I remember it was more about what should/would you do if you found a collection, and the owner was not aware it was worth a boatload. The thread ended up in a splitting hair breakdown of every Church story printed.

 

And to Alan... just to be a buthead...Might I ask you why you would agree that Chuck would embellish on other stories, but not the Church story? Why is this one exempt?

Just curious as to how you can be so sure, especially considering what the subject matter is.

 

Ze-

[FlyingDonut]

Been a while since there's been a good flame war.

 

Alan - didn't your wife find the MLS listing for the Church house? It was VERY small, if I remember correctly.

[joe_collector]

Vince, I really, really, really wish you would stop with the inaccurate statements. You do everyone a disservice when you cloud the waters with your falsehoods.

 

I would ask the same of you.

 

I would also LOVE to know where all your INDISPUTABLE FACTS came from if you never actually spoke to a member of the Church family?

 

Wouldn't that just leave Chuck as the only true witness to what actually transpired, right? So that would mean you're essentially pimping his side of the story, right?

 

Right?

[joe_collector]

Been a while since there's been a good flame war.

 

Nah, this ain't a war, it's just that Al can't see that he's using conjecture and theory to base his own opinions of what happened, as only Chuck and the Church heirs know for sure.

 

I am man enough to admit the following, but Al doesn't seem willing to budge from his "Sure I never talked to a Church heir, and I wasn't there, but I know everything" stance:

 

Chuck purchased the greatest Golden Age collection ever known for even less than the original owner paid to acquire them at cover price.

 

From that, you can believe he is an Angel or the Devil Incarnate, but anything else is conjecture.

 

Remember, dead men tell no lies.

[PedigreeMan]

And to Alan... just to be a buthead...Might I ask you why you would agree that Chuck would embellish on other stories, but not the Church story? Why is this one exempt?

Just curious as to how you can be so sure, especially considering what the subject matter is.

 

Ze, I'm going to take a page from FFB's playbook and simply state that I neither agree nor disagree that Chuck embellishes his other stories. I haven't researched them to the extent I have the Edgar Church find, and thus don't feel comfortable weighing in on one side of the matter or the other.

 

Although, certain aspects of the Mile High 2 story have been corroborated by people like `shadroc,' and `ghoulaid' has said flat out that he's been the subject of a few of Chuck's stories over the years, so if I was hard pressed to give an opinion one way or another, I'd say that Chuck is "mostly truthful" in what he says.

 

I will say this, also: I believe that most of the embellishment of Chuck's stories have taken place after the fact by people who dislike the man and are prone to hyperbole and twisting of the truth. Tall tales take on a life of their own due more to the people who spread them rather than the person who initially starts them.

[joe_collector]

Listen Al, I really do not want to fight with you about this. I don't know exactly what happened, you don't know exactly what happened. There are only two people alive who do, but one ain't talking, and the other usually talks out of his hass.

 

The only thing that gets me riled is when people try and portray Chuck as some "comic book hero" for paying less-than cover for a dying man's GA collection, and then bragging about it after.

 

Other than that, let Peyote Chuck puff away.

[PedigreeMan]

Chuck purchased the greatest Golden Age collection ever known for even less than the original owner paid to acquire them at cover price.

 

The ironic thing about your statement, Vince, is that you have no facts for what Chuck paid for the collection. I have never given a number, and have always wondered where the ~$2000 price quoted in Matt Nelson's article came from. Comics Between the Panels quotes a source close to Chuck at the time, but I have not vetted that book and thus refrain from speculating what the purchase price was. Did he make a killing? Sure, but again, he has never mad a statement otherwise.

 

Also, even if your statement was correct (or was amended to be correct), it would still not be the only absolute facts known in this case. FACT: The size of the house is 786 sq. ft., with 700 sq. ft. of improved space in the basement. FACT: The Churchs lived there from around the time it was built in 1929 until 1977, when it was sold. FACT: Edgar died in 1978 after having lived at the Iliff Nursing Care Center. FACT: There were approx. 20,000 comic books and an unknown amount of paper ephemera stored in the basement at the time of sale. Based on the condition of the books, it is reasonable to assume that they had been in place since their purchase. FACT: Chuck ended up with the books and paper ephemera while he was in his early twenties.

 

That's a lot of facts from which to draw some nifty conclusions, irrespective of Chuck's additional narratives on the matter. Again, get your stories right, Vince ... that's all I ask.

[PedigreeMan]

Alan - didn't your wife find the MLS listing for the Church house? It was VERY small, if I remember correctly.

 

Dan, nope, I found the listing on realtor.com; The Wife found the actual realtor's website, which contained the listing and had a couple of extra pictures of the inside.

 

Completely independent of this research, a fellow forumite also found this listing sometime after the house had been sold. The flyer has been posted on this message board in the past.

[PedigreeMan]

The only thing that gets me riled is when people try and portray Chuck as some "comic book hero" for paying less-than cover for a dying man's GA collection, and then bragging about it after.

 

And the only thing that gets me riled up is inaccurate information, which is something that you are a veritable fount of. Chuck has yet to convince me that he consistently "talks out of his hass"; whereas you prove that you perform this action on a daily basis.

[joe_collector]

FACT: The size of the house is 786 sq. ft., with 700 sq. ft. of improved space in the basement. FACT: The Churchs lived there from around the time it was built in 1929 until 1977, when it was sold. FACT: Edgar died in 1978 after having lived at the Iliff Nursing Care Center. FACT: There were approx. 20,000 comic books and an unknown amount of paper ephemera stored in the basement at the time of sale. Based on the condition of the books, it is reasonable to assume that they had been in place since their purchase. FACT: Chuck ended up with the books and paper ephemera while he was in his early twenties.

 

Wait, you forget the "Population of Boulder, Colorado", "Chuck's Weight and Eye Color", and "The Sedimentary Composition around the Church household" in your "Useless Facts about the Mile High Find" list.

 

You really are out there man. Seriously.

 

I'm done here. If I wanted to talk to obsessed lunatics, I'd just hit the local Star Wars Convention.

[PovertyRow]

He backs absolutely nothing up with any facts and browbeats a subject to the point where a person simply wants to agree with him just to shut him the heck up.

 

That is not true. I do believe there are a few instances in which I won over JC. They were, at one time, a bit of a board buzz.

[PedigreeMan]

He backs absolutely nothing up with any facts and browbeats a subject to the point where a person simply wants to agree with him just to shut him the heck up.

 

That is not true. I do believe there are a few instances in which I won over JC. They were, at one time, a bit of a board buzz.

 

PROVE IT!

[PovertyRow]

He backs absolutely nothing up with any facts and browbeats a subject to the point where a person simply wants to agree with him just to shut him the heck up.

 

That is not true. I do believe there are a few instances in which I won over JC. They were, at one time, a bit of a board buzz.

 

PROVE IT!

 

Hey! You have been on here almost as long as I have and you don't recall? And I come in with some support for your perception and you freaking me?

 

And to make matters worse, you reply BEFORE JC does, potentially relieving him of any responsibility to ask me himself because he will just use one of his special JC Twists where he can say that "Well PedMan asked and Pov did not"?

 

And you nutz?

[october]

I think Alan was kidding.

[PovertyRow]

I think Alan was kidding.

 

And what are YOU butting in for? Huh?

[october]

I think Alan was kidding.

 

And what are YOU butting in for? Huh?

 

What, you wanna go? You want a piece of me? I'm standin' right here! How do you wanna handle it?

[PovertyRow]

I think Alan was kidding.

 

And what are YOU butting in for? Huh?

 

What, you wanna go? You want a piece of me? I'm standin' right here! How do you wanna handle it?

 

YEAH! YEAH! Graemlins at 20 paces! No!!! 10 paces!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FIVE PACES!!!!!! You're ON!

 

[october]

[mister_not_so_nice]

..but one thing has been bothering me and i need resolution on, and only one person knows thr truth about it. My question is this...

 

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Raccoonraccoon, did your original question ever get answered?