Financial Issues or More Inventory? 2 2

[vodou]

On 7/8/2022 at 5:08 PM, Rick2you2 said:

...and I’m more concerned with supply shortages than debt in Europe as a force which will drive it into a deep recession (thereby lowering art prices). 

I'm sorry to keep doing this to you, but your domestic blinders will be your downfall. The collapse of Europe is exactly what will drive the US stock market and art market (incl comic art) into the stratosphere. But first, some pain for the next 9 months, maybe all the way through 2023 even and then rocketship. Bank on it. I am. Those that can't weather the storm, that carry too much debt and not enough savings, that can't weather both wage earners being unemployed for possibly several years ahead...they will be selling, and there will not be reserves. If you're flush, it will be a great opportunity to enhance your existing position

Edited July 8, 2022 by vodou
typos

[Rick2you2]

On 7/8/2022 at 6:35 PM, vodou said:

I'm sorry to keep doing this to you, but your domestic blinders will be your downfall. The collapse of Europe is exactly what will drive the US stock market and art market (incl comic art) into the stratosphere. But first, some pain for the next 9 months, maybe all the way through 2023 even and then rocketship. Bank on it. I am. Those that can't weather the storm, that carry too much debt and not enough savings, that can't weather both wage earners being unemployed for possibly several years ahead...they will be selling, and there will not be reserves. If you're flush, it will be a great opportunity to enhance your existing position

I see most of the Western European economy as one of the middle layers in a seven layer cake--it adds to bulk, but contributes nothing uniquely valuable. Running on cheap energy from the Bear, it has a military so badly funded it can barely spare any major artillary pieces for Ukraine (which it is being shamed into contributing), and all while maintaining a social safety net as thick as a woolen sock for its early retirement citizens' boots. So when you write that the "collapse of Europe is exactly what will drive the US stock market and art market (incl comic art) into the stratosphere", I can't help but wonder how anyone with as much sense and smarts as you have think that Europeans can drive anything except overpriced, overengineered auto's (other than the ones which fall apart with great regularity). It lives on the precipice and was never a safe investment for much of anything. Sorry Euro guys, you have to get out of that way of thinking which has become inflated by wind power and the rays of the sun. We'll have pain in the US alright, some in deserved places like crypto, and some hitting the middle class with inflation, but that will modulate and things should straighten out in 6-9 months (unless the Government does more stupid economic tricks). But, our pain won't be due to the appendage attached to Russia.

Now that was fun to write. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Rick2you2

[vodou]

On 7/9/2022 at 6:12 AM, Rick2you2 said:

I can't help but wonder how anyone with as much sense and smarts as you have think that Europeans can drive anything

I'm just using facts, so no credit to me here, the facts that Europe as a whole generates approximately the same GDP and has the same population as the USA. Now putting other differences (like the lack of a common language and national identity) aside, the predicted collapse of such scope (productivity and population sizes) is notable. Thus, I'm simply noting. And then speculating where all that wealth will flee to...

[Rick2you2]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:39 AM, vodou said:

I'm just using facts, so no credit to me here, the facts that Europe as a whole generates approximately the same GDP and has the same population as the USA. Now putting other differences (like the lack of a common language and national identity) aside, the predicted collapse of such scope (productivity and population sizes) is notable. Thus, I'm simply noting. And then speculating where all that wealth will flee to...

GDP is not a calculation of wealth. Just the gross value of new products and services legally sold (not exactly, but close enough). Wealth is the result of profit on new sales combined with the value of assets. Only the wealth which is liquid or easily transferable (including OA) is arguably at issue, but one doesn’t necessarily affect the other. Even a collapse in GDP won’t necessarily cause a decrease in wealth. I don’t see the Queen of England selling her castles just because a brew pub in Manchester goes under. There would have to be a loss of income or need for more income to effectively compel a sale, and they aren’t always related. For example, would Terry sell his precious artwork, or just cut spending if his income dropped? Probably the latter, unless in dire straits, but who knows? We get enough rank speculation on the internet. No need to give it more “value” than it’s worth. Stick to hard numbers and basic economic theory if you want the most likely answer.

[Humpty-Dumpty]

On 7/8/2022 at 3:35 PM, vodou said:

I'm sorry to keep doing this to you, but your domestic blinders will be your downfall. The collapse of Europe is exactly what will drive the US stock market and art market (incl comic art) into the stratosphere. But first, some pain for the next 9 months, maybe all the way through 2023 even and then rocketship. Bank on it. I am. Those that can't weather the storm, that carry too much debt and not enough savings, that can't weather both wage earners being unemployed for possibly several years ahead...they will be selling, and there will not be reserves. If you're flush, it will be a great opportunity to enhance your existing position

We won't get through 2023 with this current financial system, so you can throw that thesis out the window.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Humpty-Dumpty
grammer

[Humpty-Dumpty]

On 7/9/2022 at 3:12 AM, Rick2you2 said:

I see most of the Western European economy as one of the middle layers in a seven layer cake--it adds to bulk, but contributes nothing uniquely valuable. Running on cheap energy from the Bear, it has a military so badly funded it can barely spare any major artillary pieces for Ukraine (which it is being shamed into contributing), and all while maintaining a social safety net as thick as a woolen sock for its early retirement citizens' boots. So when you write that the "collapse of Europe is exactly what will drive the US stock market and art market (incl comic art) into the stratosphere", I can't help but wonder how anyone with as much sense and smarts as you have think that Europeans can drive anything except overpriced, overengineered auto's (other than the ones which fall apart with great regularity). It lives on the precipice and was never a safe investment for much of anything. Sorry Euro guys, you have to get out of that way of thinking which has become inflated by wind power and the rays of the sun. We'll have pain in the US alright, some in deserved places like crypto, and some hitting the middle class with inflation, but that will modulate and things should straighten out in 6-9 months (unless the Government does more stupid economic tricks). But, our pain won't be due to the appendage attached to Russia.

Now that was fun to write. 

The economy is not going to straighten out in the next 6-9 months. Well maybe it will actually, but maybe not in the way you are surmising. 

[Humpty-Dumpty]

On 7/9/2022 at 6:39 AM, vodou said:

I'm just using facts, so no credit to me here, the facts that Europe as a whole generates approximately the same GDP and has the same population as the USA. Now putting other differences (like the lack of a common language and national identity) aside, the predicted collapse of such scope (productivity and population sizes) is notable. Thus, I'm simply noting. And then speculating where all that wealth will flee to...

Just remember to give me a thumbs up when it happens. 

[KenNavarro]

Why so much hate for Europe, and who said they have the same GDP and financial state? It's not so. The USA is in the first place since it does not measure the entire EU; they are taken for being classified as a particular country. I can express my opinion freely concerning the general financial issues discussed in the thread. I claim you're not right since I am a student in the economics faculty and have some reliable knowledge in the domain. Moreover, https://ca.edubirdie.com/finance-help is the service that helps me with my academic homework and provides finance help for my friends who are students from Canada. So, EduBirdie's writers are professionals and offer us only trustful data. Therefore, check the service for homework help in finances and then begin a disscussion concerning countries' finances.

Edited July 13, 2022 by KenNavarro

[Rick2you2]

On 7/11/2022 at 11:13 AM, KenNavarro said:

Why so much hate for Europe, and who said they have the same GDP? It's not so. The USA is in the first place since it does not measure the entire EU; they are taken for being classified as particular countries.

I never said I hate all Europe. I do hate the economic systems of France, Germany and Italy: they learned the wrong lessons from World Wars 1&2. Now they just want to make money where they can and assume profit guides the world. They are getting a bird’s eye view of that attitude in Eastern Europe, and they may finally change (I am an optimist at heart).

[John E.]

On 6/10/2022 at 1:07 PM, Will_K said:

Please let us know how it sells.

I guess there is a…

Step 8:  

Step 9: 

and 

Step 10:  

[Rick2you2]

On 7/13/2022 at 11:06 PM, John E. said:

I guess there is a…

Step 8:  

Step 9: 

and 

Step 10:  

Several possibilities, I guess. Maybe a combo. The original estimated value was way off with overoptimistic pricing across the board. Or, there is a temporary pullback due to fear of recession and lack of cash flow. Or, this is a reset from the high prices running from the early days of the Pandemic. Or, this is evidence of a market shift away from the character. Or, it’s summer, and who really cares about this stuff If you can be outside unless you are a hard core collectors? Maybe other possibilities,too. The question is what is the trend from multiple data points?

[John E.]

On 7/14/2022 at 5:15 AM, Rick2you2 said:

Several possibilities, I guess. Maybe a combo. The original estimated value was way off with overoptimistic pricing across the board. Or, there is a temporary pullback due to fear of recession and lack of cash flow. Or, this is a reset from the high prices running from the early days of the Pandemic. Or, this is evidence of a market shift away from the character. Or, it’s summer, and who really cares about this stuff If you can be outside unless you are a hard core collectors? Maybe other possibilities,too. The question is what is the trend from multiple data points?

The original eBay price was $300 or best offer. No takers (stages 1 through 6). It then gets shipped out to Comic Link (stage 7) which ended last night and hammers for $550 (stages 8 through 10). Someone should’ve taken the better deal when it was on eBay. 

[Humpty-Dumpty]

Temporary pull back is being very optimistic.

[Hekla]

On 7/14/2022 at 5:01 AM, John E. said:

The original eBay price was $300 or best offer. No takers (stages 1 through 6). It then gets shipped out to Comic Link (stage 7) which ended last night and hammers for $550 (stages 8 through 10). Someone should’ve taken the better deal when it was on eBay. 

Unless I'm missing something, looks like the ebay listing is for the inked page and the CLink is of the penciled page.

[MAR1979]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:46 AM, Race said:

I've been firm on the idea that larger financial issues (poor stock market and crypto performance over the past 6 months, coupled with inflation) have left a lot of people with less money/purchasing power and this will hurt OA pricing in the short term. Another member, however, posted something equally intriguing: that all of the inventory suddenly coming to market out of black hole collections is removing liquidity which would otherwise flow to middle and lower tier pages, i.e., softening this part of the market. Had not considered this before, but it makes sense.

Once upon a time I would have soooo agreed with you.  In Oct 2007 I figured art would be dropping so hold on to my currency and feast a few months or so later. Well that never happened! The art I seek never went down in price only up, up, up.  By early 2009 I was priced out of Bronze Age Marvel covers and splashes, then a year or 2 later mostly priced out of Marvel Bronze battle pages. 

Will be interesting to seeing if a correction occurs I for one look forward to purchasing some stuff i previously was unable but I wont get my hopes up...especially since "average"  Wiacek Man-Thing v2 1980 pages are now testing 1000 level

Edited July 14, 2022 by MAR1979

[John E.]

On 7/14/2022 at 9:17 AM, Hekla said:

Unless I'm missing something, looks like the ebay listing is for the inked page and the CLink is of the penciled page.

 

I believe you’re right. 
 

Now I find it an interesting coincidence these popped up back to back. 
 

I just looked up the eBay description. Says “blue pencils” and ink. If I didn’t know what I was buying, I would assume I’m buying the one and only original. I think this is what clouded me into thinking they were the same page. And this is why I stay away from modern art. 

[Hekla]

On 7/14/2022 at 7:30 AM, John E. said:

 

I believe you’re right. 
 

Now I find it an interesting coincidence these popped up back to back. 
 

I just looked up the eBay description. Says “blue pencils” and ink. If I didn’t know what I was buying, I would assume I’m buying the one and only original. I think this is what clouded me into thinking they were the same page. And this is why I stay away from modern art. 

Maybe the seller thought they could maximize profits by selling on 2 different platforms?

 

Most artists and dealers are up front about what you are buying, but one definitely has to ask questions about Modern art - there are so many way to produce it now (separate pages; hand pencils, digitally inked; digitally penciled, hand inked, etc.).