PGM ASM #238 1 1

[Pukie]

Hello, PGM ASM #238

I'm wondering how much a stain like this affects the grade.

What would be the grade on this book with and without the stain?

Thank you.

[scburdet]

I just got back my Iron Fist 14 that had some staining (much less severe). It is otherwise sharp. Grader notes only mention the stain. Came back at 5.5 much to my dismay. With this 1 data point and what I've seen people report here, they are hammering stains. I would not send this without cleaning get as much of this removed as possible, and then, it might be a questionable investment if it doesn't clean well.

[marvelmaniac]

Are the "Tatooz" still present, IMO they were meant to be removed and do not affect the story or integrity of the book so I personally do not downgrade for this. If they are missing CGC will give you a "Green Qualified Label" stating the "Book Is Incomplete, Missing Tatooz".

Slightly blunted corners, minor spine stress with a few, slightly color breaking spine ticks, discolored staples, large stain on rear cover that bleeds through.

From what I have read CGC is not lenient on staining.

Without The Stain

 

8.0 VERY FINE (VF):  Back to Top
An excellent copy with outstanding eye appeal. A limited accumulation of minor bindery/printing defects is allowed. Cover is relatively flat with minimal surface wear beginning to show, possibly including some minute wear at corners. Inks are generally bright with moderate to high reflectivity. An unnoticeable 1/4" crease is acceptable if color is not broken. Stamped or inked arrival dates may be present. Minor foxing. Spine is almost completely flat with a possible minor color break. Staples may show some discoloration. Very slight staple tears and a few almost insignificant stress lines may be present. Paper is cream to tan and supple. Centerfold is mostly secure. Minor interior tears at the margin may be present.

7.5 VERY FINE- (VF-):  Back to Top
Fits the criteria for Very Fine but with an additional defect or small accumulation of defects that detracts from the book's appearance by a perceptible amount.

With The Stain (IMO)

6.0 FINE (FN):  Back to Top
An above-average copy that shows minor wear but is still relatively flat and clean with no significant creasing or other serious defects. Some accumulation of minor bindery/printing defects is allowed. Minor cover wear apparent, with minor to moderate creases. Inks show a significant reduction in reflectivity. Blunted corners are more common, as is minor staining, soiling, discoloration, and/or foxing. Stamped or inked arrival dates may be present. A minor spine roll is allowed. There can also be a 1/4" spine split or severe color break. Staples may show minor discoloration. Minor staple tears and a few slight stress lines may be present, as well as minor rust migration. Paper is tan to brown and fairly supple with no signs of brittleness. Minor interior tears at the margin may be present. Centerfold may be loose.

[Dr. Balls]

I always felt that significant stains like that keep it within VG range. On this ASM with very few other defects (nice spine, tight staple from what I can see) I figured the stain drags it down to 4.5. Stains not as prominent could get up to 5.5 - which seems to correlate with scburdet's CGC grade?

This is what I would call a "nice presenter" for the grade (since the UPC hides it on the front). And yeah, the Tattooz present or missing will be important as well.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[scburdet]

On 6/22/2022 at 11:21 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I always felt that significant stains like that keep it within VG range. On this ASM with very few other defects (nice spine, tight staple from what I can see) I figured the stain drags it down to 4.5. Stains not as prominent could get up to 5.5 - which seems to correlate with scburdet's CGC grade?

This is what I would call a "nice presenter" for the grade (since the UPC hides it on the front). And yeah, the Tattooz present or missing will be important as well.

I don't have the book or a photo of the back cover on me, but if Pukie wants to see it, I can post it later tonight. You can see a small stain at the top of the book here. The one on the back is smaller and much lighter than the one on this ASM238 as memory serves from examining it last night. If you aren't going over this book thoroughly, you'd think it was a much higher grade.

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/22/2022 at 9:38 AM, scburdet said:

I don't have the book or a photo of the back cover on me, but if Pukie wants to see it, I can post it later tonight. You can see a small stain at the top of the book here. The one on the back is smaller and much lighter than the one on this ASM238 as memory serves from examining it last night. If you aren't going over this book thoroughly, you'd think it was a much higher grade.

Yeah, wow - that's a gorgeous book for a 5.5. Perfect candidate for the philosophy of "buy the book, not the grade." I mean, everyone wants to peg the highest grade they can, but I find no shame in the low-grade game when the book looks like that.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[scburdet]

On 6/22/2022 at 11:40 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Yeah, wow - that's a gorgeous book for a 5.5. Perfect candidate for the philosophy of "buy the book, not the grade." I mean, everyone wants to peg the highest grade they can, but I find no shame in the low-grade game when the book looks like that.

Yeah, I'm not a 9.8 or bust collector. It's a really nice looking book and my jaw hit the floor when I saw 5.5. I'm not offended by it per se, but it's a big glaring scarlet number right on the front. I've heard you can fix these grades with a well-placed piece of painter's tape and a marker 

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/22/2022 at 9:47 AM, scburdet said:

Yeah, I'm not a 9.8 or bust collector. It's a really nice looking book and my jaw hit the floor when I saw 5.5. I'm not offended by it per se, but it's a big glaring scarlet number right on the front. I've heard you can fix these grades with a well-placed piece of painter's tape and a marker 

Just smear a little Crisco on your camera lens before the photo so you can't make out the details...

[LowGradeBronze]

My instinct is 5.5 on this. 

[scburdet]

On 6/22/2022 at 11:38 AM, scburdet said:

I don't have the book or a photo of the back cover on me, but if Pukie wants to see it, I can post it later tonight. You can see a small stain at the top of the book here. The one on the back is smaller and much lighter than the one on this ASM238 as memory serves from examining it last night. If you aren't going over this book thoroughly, you'd think it was a much higher grade.

Just so I can make Pukie's post on ASM238 all about my Iron Fist 14, here are the back photos. I zoomed in on the stain, so you can compare the two books and see what you think (all kidding aside, I hope this is helpful). This did go through CCS C&P, but I did not take before photos unfortunately. My memory says the stain was a little more noticeable before, but I wouldn't swear on it. I do remember not noticing the stains when I did a superficial examination before deciding to send it for signing. I don't know if another C&P service would have done better, my guess is there are limits to what non-invasive techniques can accomplish. I speak with no authority on the subject, however. If anyone sees my PGM posts, I have several where the books have stains/discoloration that I am now super-paranoid about. This is why.

[MrRoboto]

5.5-6.0. Probably the former.

[Pukie]

Thank you all very much for your input.  I certainly learned more about this topic.

[grendelbo]

5.0/5.5

On 6/22/2022 at 9:19 AM, marvelmaniac said:

Are the "Tatooz" still present, IMO they were meant to be removed and do not affect the story or integrity of the book so I personally do not downgrade for this. If they are missing CGC will give you a "Green Qualified Label" stating the "Book Is Incomplete, Missing Tatooz".

Agreed. It's ridiculous that CGC qualifies this book if the Tattooz are missing.

Thanks for posting.