High Grade Hoarding

[joe_collector]

Now most people realize there are large amounts of high-grade mid-60's and on comics, but a couple of quotes from Chuck's Tales of the Database "MileHigh II" story surprised even me.

 

No matter your opinion of the MH II collection as a pedigree or not, the vast majority of these 1.7 million+ comics are in CGC 9.4 or higher shape, and the following literally blew my socks off:

 

"I eventually discovered that the highest number of a single issue in the warehouse was 14,000 copies of one 12 cent cover price Marvel comic."

 

"There I discovered an entire layer (1,500?) comprised exclusively of high grade copies of X-Men Annual #1."

 

"Even more disturbing, I saw many instances where there were entire unopened case lots of certain issues of comics, where the distributor obviously never even put the books out for sale."

[COI]

"I eventually discovered that the highest number of a single issue in the warehouse was 14,000 copies of one 12 cent cover price Marvel comic."

 

 

I really want to know what book this was.

[joe_collector]

I'd bet it's one of those ASM issues you see in CGC 9.4 and 9.6 on a daily basis. I remember the Blazing One posting some issues in a continuous stream, along with some other dealers.

[COI]

If it's an ASM issue, I'd wager it's #33 or #45.

[joe_collector]

On another note, wouldn't this be an amazing collection to sort through? Just imagine opening box after box, finding hoards of key issues, and then coming upon a sealed case of Hulk 181, ASM 129, GS X-Men 1/X-Men 94 or any other Bronze Key?

 

I know these existed in one form or another, and there were "layers" of keys in the hundreds and thousands, but imagine actually sorting them.

 

Talk about a kid in a candy store.

[lighthouse]

Back in the very early eBay days, Mile High ran its own auctions on its website. I was an active bidder there on a variety of random junk. They ran two or three auctions a week of each category, and EVERY single week, every single auction, they had a Thor 132 NM for sale. I won one the eight or ninth week that I watched, then saw the book listed over and over again every week thereafter for two years.

 

I can't see letting 300 NM copies of the same book go at 25-35% of guide with no reserve unless you had thousands of them...

 

Chuck will never admit which book it is, of course, no sense destroying the market of that issue. But I would bet my pocket change it's Thor 132.

[COI]

yeah, seriously. But don't you think that you'd be ruined after the experience? One thing I like about HG books is that on the whole, you just don't stroll across them(in person) THAT often in super high grades(raw) at shops and cons. I think that;s what makes high grades so nice to find and hold. But after an experience like that(as cool as it may be) I think you'd become spoiled.

[COI]

Good call on the Thor. Definetly a top suspect.

[joe_collector]

>>But after an experience like that(as cool as it may be) I think you'd become spoiled.

 

Go ahead.... spoil me!

[lighthouse]

What's tough about spotting hoarding trends is that if the hoarder does a decent job of keeping it a secret they can bleed the inventory out slowly enough that no one is the wiser. It takes years for people to see that a book just isn't that hard to find in high grade, since you have to wait until the folks that bought it from the hoarder decide to sell...

 

If you came across 500 9.4 copies of Hulk 181, you would be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person to announce it to ANYONE. You just slowly turn the raw copies, through as many third-parties as possible, and let the market absorb them. I say raw because a large number of people will choose NOT to certify them and uncertified high-grades don't exist as far as the census is concerned. You announce that find with a picture in CBG and you can kiss half a million bucks goodbye...

 

Thor 132... that's my pick...

[Lofwyr]

I doubt milehigh or any other collector has a significant key in a quantity that vast. I don't doubt they have a dragon's hoard of lesser 12 cent issues but certainly not keys. Those have been sold throughout the years and have been coveted by fanboys for a long time. If someone possessed thousands of copies of ultra hot keys they'd be tripping over themselves to have it CGC'd and ebay'd today asap. Imagine stumbling upon a box of NM #181's? Hell you could sell 50-60 of them and retire. Though, I believe the 19,000 bid for that one 9.8 was a total fluke. People won't go gaga like that everytime..

 

 

[joe_collector]

That's one reason why buying any post 1965-66 CGC comic for investment purposes, is a serious risk. I know for a fact that Chuck had zillions of Silver and Bronze Age keys in that 1.7 million+ comic find, and I also know that the vast majority are sitting in collections.

 

10 years from now we may all be sitting here laughing at the Census numbers on some Key issues mushroom, as submission rates increase, and Old Comic Hoarder #27 dies and cases of this stuff emerges in auction. As the old saying goes, nothing stays hidden forever.

 

I also bet that Chuck wishes he'd never sold that case of Hulk 181's.

[joe_collector]

>>If someone possessed thousands of copies of ultra hot keys they'd be tripping over themselves to have it CGC'd and ebay'd today asap.

 

You seem to forget that most serious collectors have significant financial resources already, and would never think of selling their prized collection. In fact, many would view the $18K for a CGC 9.8 Hulk 181 as chump change, compared to some of the Golden Age keys they hold.

 

I've never understood this "they'd be running to CGC it" mentality, as we have board members on here with significant collections, who are in no hurry (other than greggy ) to divest themselves of their ultra-high-grade keys.

 

Or as my wife says when I mention I'm gonna sell some books: "Why, do you need the money?".

[aardvark88]

Correction re Chuck. He found a stash of X-men King Size Spcl #1. He sold at least 50 copies during 1 San Diego con about 15 yrs ago. This was when he used to rent out a side room & unload an 18 wheeler full of long boxes onto the convention floor from Hulk 1 up.

[underthebigw]

I wouldn't doubt that certain keys exist in such quantities at all, especially when we're talking unsold stock. Why should a key be any less likely to be found from such a source. In the minds of most distributors, a comic was a comic was a comic. The only factor that would determine the likelihood of large numbers stashed away in a warehouse would be print run.

 

Also, I have to totally agree with JC--the argument that anyone with a hoard of keys would be tripping over themselves to have them slabbed flies in the face of logic. Do not underestimate the number of collectors who have unreal collections and/or stockpiles who have no need or intention to sell off books right now, therefore no need to slab them. Also, if you had a couple thousand Hulk 181's, would you send them in to CGC more than a few at a time? Once they are on the census, everyone knows they exist and the perception of easy availability would supress prices.

[murph0]

I still think that it's most likely that it was ASM 45. I've seen at least 6 copies of that book floating around with the certificates. Btw, I wouldn't be too sure that ALL of those books are around 9.4. I own 30 MH2 copies total, of them I'd say 3 are 9.4's. 20 of them are easily no better then VF+, and the rest vary in condition some are VF, some NM-, some VF/NM.

Either way just b/c they found a couple large collections like this in no way means that anyone and everyone has this type of collection sitting some place.

 

Brian

[fantastic_four]

There aren't enough Spidey 45s around to match up to the 14,000 copy total he alluded to. I see more Spidey 33s than 45s, and the Census shows more 33s also.

 

I've got to go with Lighthouse's pick, I see a lot of Thor 132s slabbed and unslabbed and there are a BUNCH of Census numbers on that issue for a non-key book.

[murph0]

I think you're missing the point here, not all the books were NM or better. Check it out. The ASM 45 census is just as large as the Thor 132. The fact that there's 6 MH2 9.4's out there alone would certainly support this conclusion. Look at the spread on the ASM 45, the glut of all the issues are right between 9.4-8.0 this is where almost every MH2 copy I've ever seen grades out at. I think if it was Thor 132, you'd see a larger range of copies sent in on the census. And raw, I don't know about Thor but it's difficult to even find a copy of ASM 45 that isn't at least VF.

 

Brian

[Aman619]

There was a similar thread a few weeks ago about Chucks MHII warehouse. Heres what I wrote then.....

 

I have a feeling that it was Tales of Suspense #74. Im not positive and have no inside knowledge...BUT----

 

Back in the mid 80s I went to one of their stores and saw palettes of comics. A lot of 70s junk: Black Lightning, Starfire, etc. And I was digging around in these endless boxes of books and came across a huge pile of Sunspense 74s. I picked out 40 of the nicest ones (all unread and unsold) and bought them for $4 each.

 

Thats only circumstantial, I know. There were a lot of books in multiples there that day. But I looked in the CGC census recently and sure enough, #74 has had lots more high grade books sent in. Here are issues 73 thru 75:

 

issue........9.8.......9.6.......9.4........9.2........9.0............Total graded

#73..........1...........5..........1...........3...........1....................20

#74..........5..........10........24........11...........6....................67

#75..........0...........1...........4..........2...........6....................18

 

#74 is not a key so that is not the reason so many more have been sent in than its contemporary issues. Couldn't it be the abundant supply in high grade that explains why so many more have been selected for grading?

 

 

[murph0]

Also notice the difference between 44 and 45. The census shows 80 less copies not to mention the fact that there's a 4/5/18/17 spread from 9.6 to 9.0 respectively. Compare that to 10/22/34/33 from 9.6 to 9.0 respectively. That's a big jump and 44 is a much more "major" book then 45 so I don't buy the fact that it was considered a major book so it was bought more. Both feature the Lizard on the cover. If anything 44 would've been more likely to have been "hoarded".

Forgot this, I would however say that it's quite obvious there were multiples of Thor 132 in this collection.

 

Brian