High Grade Hoarding

[12c_Comic]

Well I guess this mean that I'll get my Amazing Fantasy #15 for $10.00...or $5.00...or maybe???

[Lofwyr]

After reading Chuck's story on how he came upon the Edgar Church collection and his building of Mile high comics I have to say some of the animosity towards him is unwarranted. He sells expensive and sometimes shoddily graded comics but he's a businessman. Buyers have a choice whether to purchase from him or not. Apparently his business model works fine because he's still running and turning a profit. Most collectors aren't as fastidious or fickle as the die hards on this forum. They just want to complete their series run and are willing to pay a premium without searching ebay endlessly for that one good deal that saves them some money.

 

It's basic economics, if the demand is there and his prices don't cause customer turnover then it's successful. There is nothing inherently negative about how he markets his comics. Buyers always have an alternative because this isn't the milehigh of the 70's or 80's when mailorder purchasing was limited.

 

 

 

 

[drdonaldblake]

cmon guys

 

the 14000 comic hoarded issue has to be.........drum roll please............

 

......THOR 156!!!

 

out of all those hi grade copies, ol chuck picked the cgc 10

 

just my thoughts

[fantastic_four]

I think you're missing the point here, not all the books were NM or better. Check it out. The ASM 45 census is just as large as the Thor 132. The fact that there's 6 MH2 9.4's out there alone would certainly support this conclusion. Look at the spread on the ASM 45, the glut of all the issues are right between 9.4-8.0 this is where almost every MH2 copy I've ever seen grades out at. I think if it was Thor 132, you'd see a larger range of copies sent in on the census. And raw, I don't know about Thor but it's difficult to even find a copy of ASM 45 that isn't at least VF.

A raw Thor 132 in 8.0 to 9.4 condition isn't as slab-worthy when it's worth $40 to $75, but a Spidey 45 is more feasible since Spidey is hotter and worth more at $100 to $175. I actually haven't seen compelling evidence for any one of these books we've mentioned over the others; certainly the CGC census data is inconclusive. They were all in the collection, I'm sure, but which ones was the 14,000 copy monster is difficult to say.

 

I'm interested in getting a complete list of the Silver age Marvels that were included in the Mile High 2 warehouse find...the possible issues I've heard so far are:

 

• Spidey 33 (was this one in there?)
• Spidey 45
• Fantastic Four 48 (was this in there?)
• Fantastic Four 59
• Avengers 24
• Strange Tales 74
• Thor 132
• Thor 156
• X-Men Annual 1

Does anyone know of other possible issues? Or can anyone verify that they've seen Mile High 2 certificates for the issues above? I've never heard of MH2 certificates for Spidey 33 or FF 48, but I don't believe Chuck got all the comics from the warehouse; these may have been picked out before he got there since they both are the only keys in the list.

[FlyingDonut]

I'm sure it is the Thor 132, because of the sheer number of 9.8s and 9.6s of this book, PLUS if you go to a big show, there's a zillion of them floating around.

[dam60]

Not to open old wounds, but IMO, Chuck is an incredible piece of sh*t and I have not and will not buy from Mile High just out of principle. To take one example, how could he offer the Church family $2K for that stash of books? A modern day comparison pales in comparison, but imagine being able to buy in 1979 dollars $50K-$100K worth of items (which I would probably call conservative) for $2K? I understand economics and know that people have to make a living, but there's making a living and then there is ripping off little old ladies, quite literally.

 

I had been reading the CBG installments of the MHII find, but was quickly turned off. Chuck's over abundant references, dare I say "embellishemts" to mafia involvement and the picture he paints of the seller as a complete Coke junkie are unwarranted.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but the thought of CR brings a bad taste to my mouth.

 

DAM

[underthebigw]

I have news for you--ALL books, including those from the mid-late SA are common. You just can not underestimate the number of books out there. Sure, some of these books are probably harder to find in grade than the average BA book, but the reality is that the collectors mind-set had already been put into place and a high percentage of books were well-taken care of. Nevermind warehouse stashes. And this isn't true for Marvels only. Twice now I've run into collectors who bought mulitple hand-picked copies of most early 60's DC books off the newstand purely for speculation. None of this stuff is truly RARE. Is it in demand? Yes. Is most of it locked up in collections and hoards? Yes. It is not rare though.

 

That said, it is all collectable. You buy what you want and you spend what you're willing to on it. I don't think I've ever paid over guide for anything and have typically paid significantly less than guide for about 80% of my collection. And it's a damn decent one. If people bought what they like instead of speculating, it really shouldn't matter if there's a thousand HG copies lingering around somewhere. If you want to pay $100 buck for a HG BA book because it was one of your favorites as a kid, it shouldn't matter how many 9.8's are out there.

[THE_BEYONDER]

"if you want to pay $100 bucks for a HG BA book because it was one of your favorites as a kid, it shouldn't matter how many 9.8's are out there"

 

Finally, someone that understands why I collect comics. I only buy books that I really want to own, and I pay the price that it's "worth" to ME. I don't care if the market crashes, because I have no intention of selling. Why do I want a "perfect" copy of a particular book? Because....as you said; it was one of my favorites when I was a kid. Don't worry about what the book is "worth" to others, enjoy the book because of it's WORTH to you..............

[murph0]

The difficult part is the fact that he didn't always sell the books with the certificates. That being said however, I have seen an FF 48 9.0 w/ the MH2 certificate as well as the Avengers 24. He was selling "MH2" X-men Annual 1's up to about a year ago on the "auction" portion of his website.

 

Brian

[ninanina]

Murph0, because nobody answered your question about Chuck's inability to come up with more than he did for the Mile High 2 Collection, I really believe it came down to cashflow.

 

Many successful companies go out of business because they grow too fast. Money is spent so quickly to cover the growth, but nothing is coming in to pay for these expenses.

 

So, if Mile High did pay 25 cents an issue, he would have nothing left to cover his operating expenses he would need to cover the costs of selling these comics. The result, bankruptcy.

[fantastic_four]

You buy what you want and you spend what you're willing to on it. I don't think I've ever paid over guide for anything and have typically paid significantly less than guide for about 80% of my collection. And it's a damn decent one. If people bought what they like instead of speculating, it really shouldn't matter if there's a thousand HG copies lingering around somewhere. If you want to pay $100 buck for a HG BA book because it was one of your favorites as a kid, it shouldn't matter how many 9.8's are out there.

I buy to keep, but the amount of available supply does matter to me. If I buy a 9.2 today, and another 9.2 with better eye appeal, or perhaps a 9.4 or 9.6, becomes available to me a few months from now, then whether I overpaid for the 9.2 does matter because it's now a book that I can afford to trade or sell to make financial room for OTHER books I want since I've now got the higher-grade copy and don't necessarily need the lower-grade one.

[awe4one]

Yep, got my NM copy of Thor #132 from him (and it is a true NM copy ). Capt Marvel #13 is another suspect. Rozanski has had NM copies of that comic at steep discounts for years (can currently get one discounted for $6.00 on his website).

 

 

Jim

[Aman619]

you wrote Strange Tales 74 but Im sure you meant Tales of Suspense 74.

 

Also, when I bought them, they did not have certificates. They were in bags with those NM/M round stickers on them. I dont know when or how Chuck decided to issues certificates and for which copies...

[Aman619]

I dont think anything 'fishy' was happening. He was offered MILLIONS of comics. Even at .25 a book, that comes up to a staggering amount of cash back then. He states that the stores were not doing well and had stumbled upon a novel way of financing the purchase using paperwork/contracts that banks looks favorably upon. So they lent him the $150000 or so he needed.

 

Keep in mind that a mansion was a few hundred thou back then. A top of the line BMW or Mercedes was maybe $12000 and you see that that was a big pile of cash to lay out for funny books.

 

But back to whether or not Chuckie is a 'hero', or even a "businessman" through these two huge Mile High purchases---there are many threads here you should read for a wider perspective on the issue.

 

Many of us feel he a pirate who "liberated" the Church collection from the heirs for his personal gain, regardless of the financial "risk" and burden he took to do it. And his recent tales of conquest in his CBG column each week, filled with hand-wringing and last minute snafus by "them" are offensive to many who see them as patently self-serving re-writings of history by him to his benefit AND, worse, to the detriment of his adversaries.

 

Mnay have argued that it boils down to simply whether or not any of us would have behaved differently in that situation...but even if we were to have done just as he did, our actions wouldnt make us heroes either.

 

By the way, I'm less offended by the MileHigh 2 deal. These books were to have been destroyed by their owners by contract with the publishers (DC, Marvel) its a stretch to see them as injured parties in this transaction, Their $100K was "found money" and Chuck was advised by the books true owners (so he says) that they would not be interested in prosecuting.

[Aman619]

I have news for you--ALL books, including those from the mid-late SA are common

 

I thought that was the point I was making, too. I may have soft-pedalled it, in deference to the latter-day Bronze Age collectors to whom this may be a bit disturbing.... but yeah, there were "speculator/fanboys" buying second copies back in the EARLY sixties, too. And the practice became more common and widespread as the years wore on, until by the mid to end of the 60s "professional hoarders" were putting away whole cases of issues and making side deals with the distributors.

 

The supply of all comics is abundant. They printed billions of these suckers. But clearly the higher grades are more scarce the further you go back.

[Aman619]

I don't think I've ever paid over guide for anything and have typically paid significantly less than guide for about 80% of my collection.

 

 

I'd need to hear more detail about just what you have bought and in what condition, or what planet you live on, for me to comment on this statement!! And by what planet I am referring to the hope that there are regular flights to where you live----because if you have been buying high-grade Silver, Bronze of ANYTHING for under guide, Im there, dude!!! I think I speak for ALL of us here on this.

[joe_collector]

>>If you want to pay $100 buck for a HG BA book because it was one of your favorites as a kid, it shouldn't matter how many 9.8's are out there.

 

I disagree with this, as I don't spend any money frivolously, and expect value for my dollar, even with nostalgia-based purchases. If a book is extremely common in HG, then I'm not going to overpay simply because some newbie speculators are driving up the price.

 

There's a big difference between paying what you believe to be market rate, and paying through the teeth because some whackos have seen that Character X will be in a movie.

[joe_collector]

>>By the way, I'm less offended by the MileHigh 2 deal.

 

Me too, and regardless of Chuck's embellishment of the Mafia-ties, drugs and other historical rewrites, he did pay some actual cash for the books, and although he knew it was a good deal, $250K is still not chump change.

 

But let's not get into the MH theft, where he literally stole hundreds of thousands of dollars (then, millions now) of GA Comics for under or at original cover price, $2K. If you're a Christian, you gotta believe he'll burn for that one.

 

I actually feel sorry for people who think Chuck did the right thing with the original MH collection, as these individuals must have lived very poor lives indeed, and need our sympathy.

[PedigreeMan]

Capt Marvel #13 is another suspect

 

When the Thor #156 was graded 10.0, CBG had a brief description about the Mile High II collection and mentioned the 14,000 copies of CM #13.

 

Al

 

[joe_collector]

Yeah, I was just thinking about CM #13, as Chuck usually has NM copies and CGC NM copies of that book on his website for very low prices. When he has his sales, you can pick them up for practically nothing.

 

I sincerely hope no one "invested" any money in that comic.