Ghost books 2 2

[Bo1983]

I was wondering you’re guys opinion on silver age marvel from 1961 thru 1964 the average census is like 1500 I wonder how many are ghost books?

[KirbyTown]

On 8/8/2022 at 3:39 PM, Bo1983 said:

I was wondering you’re guys opinion on silver age marvel from 1961 thru 1964 the average census is like 1500 I wonder how many are ghost books?

Are you referencing how that might affect perceived scarcity and ultimately the prices paid? What are your thoughts on the possible situations and outcomes?

Edited August 9, 2022 by KirbyTown

[revat]

maybe this conversation is not meant to be discussed by folks like me, but what is meant by 'ghost books' and what 'census' are we talking about?  

[KirbyTown]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:23 AM, revat said:

maybe this conversation is not meant to be discussed by folks like me, but what is meant by 'ghost books' and what 'census' are we talking about?  

Referring to a situation where someone submits a book, gets the slab back, cracks it, resubmits the book. Each new slab ID number is recorded, but the old one was never erased. The quantity of slabs listed on the census now represent only cracked plastic, not real books, which changes the perceived scarcity of the book. Buyers think there are more copies of an issue slabbed than actually exist, and that bad information may alter what they're willing to pay for a copy. The book itself only exists in the slab it's currently in and it's the only slab that should be showing on the census.

If I crack and resubmit a comic thirty times, then there are twenty-nine ghosts.

Edited August 9, 2022 by KirbyTown

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:23 PM, revat said:

...what is meant by 'ghost books'...

People are just making things up on-the-fly nowadays.

[valiantman]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:33 PM, Aqua Lantern said:

...except that the CGC Census represents the maximum number which have been CGC graded to date.

A book may show 100 copies graded on the CGC Census, but in reality, 10 of those have been cracked and resubmitted, meaning that only 90 individual books exist in CGC slabs.

The CGC Census showing 100 may mean 100, 99, 98, 90, or even 1 book graded 100 times, but it cannot mean 101 or more.

[comicginger1789]

I don’t think I would consider any marvel books from the 60s “ghosts” in terms of them being scarce or hard to find. If you have money, they are all available and can be found in a second. 

Certain high grades on certain books may be “ghosts” to find though. If you want to talk true scarcity in the comic world, you gotta go pre 1955 IMO

Edited August 10, 2022 by comicginger1789

[Bo1983]

On 8/10/2022 at 12:09 AM, comicginger1789 said:

I don’t think I would consider any marvel books from the 60s “ghosts” in terms of them being scarce or hard to find. If you have money, they are all available and can be found in a second. 

Certain high grades on certain books may be “ghosts” to find though. If you want to talk true scarcity in the comic world, you gotta go pre 1955 IMO

I would call most all silver age from 1961 to thru 1964 scarce.I thank the average  print run were 250000 and there is a 98.6 attrition rate! Example Avengers 1 had a 200000 print run as of right now there are almost 5000 graded copies.But how many have been sent back for a grade bump but the people didn’t send there old label and so it’s a ghost book out there!

[comicginger1789]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:26 PM, Bo1983 said:

I would call most all silver age from 1961 to thru 1964 scarce.I thank the average  print run were 250000 and there is a 98.6 attrition rate! Example Avengers 1 had a 200000 print run as of right now there are almost 5000 graded copies.But how many have been sent back for a grade bump but the people didn’t send there old label and so it’s a ghost book out there!

Ok but you are only focusing on graded copies. I know 10 collectors in my modest city of 75000 people all with Avengers 1. They are all over 55 years old and one has his graded. And the others want nothing to do with CGC. There are a lot of these collectors out there….more than people imagine

And again. You can get Avengers 1. If I wanted one this second, I could get one. It’s not scarce. But perhaps the idea of scarcity needs defining then. To me, certain golden age (or even older) books are the definition of scarce

[comicginger1789]

Again it all depends how to are viewing scarcity. If you think hey 6000 on census, maybe 10000 in existence period that’s scarce, well maybe that is to you. But I think books that exist under 1000 or even 500 copies are truly scarce 

[Moea3]

So with eBay pulling will there be another response coming???

[KirbyTown]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:09 PM, comicginger1789 said:

I don’t think I would consider any marvel books from the 60s “ghosts” in terms of them being scarce or hard to find. If you have money, they are all available and can be found in a second. 

Certain high grades on certain books may be “ghosts” to find though. If you want to talk true scarcity in the comic world, you gotta go pre 1955 IMO

They are super common!

But the "ghosts" here refer to the comic book population counts listed on the census, and how empty plastic gets recorded along with the books. (sorry if you already knew this 👍)

[Bo1983]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:30 PM, comicginger1789 said:

Ok but you are only focusing on graded copies. I know 10 collectors in my modest city of 75000 people all with Avengers 1. They are all over 55 years old and one has his graded. And the others want nothing to do with CGC. There are a lot of these collectors out there….more than people imagine

And again. You can get Avengers 1. If I wanted one this second, I could get one. It’s not scarce. But perhaps the idea of scarcity needs defining then. To me, certain golden age (or even older) books are the definition of scarce

This is just my opinion but I consider golden age rare and early silver age scarce but everyone has there on opinion!

[Lazyboy]

On 8/10/2022 at 1:26 PM, Bo1983 said:

there is a 98.6 attrition rate

I know you're no genius, but come on.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/10/2022 at 3:31 PM, Aqua Lantern said:

You're in the wrong thread

[comicginger1789]

On 8/10/2022 at 3:12 PM, Bo1983 said:

This is just my opinion but I consider golden age rare and early silver age scarce but everyone has there on opinion!

Fair enough. Scarce to me means the demand outstrips supply. So no silver age book fits that bill in my books. Rare/scarce I assume as the same meaning whether that’s right or wrong when talking comics 

[KirbyTown]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:50 PM, comicginger1789 said:

Rare/scarce

I don't remember which was which, but I think even Gerber and Overstreet had different or flipped definitions

[Bo1983]

On 8/10/2022 at 3:26 PM, Lazyboy said:

I know you're no genius, but come on.

So what is the attrition rate on silver age?

[Lazyboy]

On 8/10/2022 at 5:35 PM, Bo1983 said:

So what is the attrition rate on silver age?

A lot less than 98.6. That may be at least close for early GA that had to survive through the 'W's (World War II and Wertham), but SA is a different story.

I'm not giving an exact figure because it's unknown, unknowable, varies depending on the year, varies depending on the issue, etc. But 98.6% is still a ludicrous suggestion.

[Bo1983]

On 8/10/2022 at 6:46 PM, Lazyboy said:

A lot less than 98.6. That may be at least close for early GA that had to survive through the 'W's (World War II and Wertham), but SA is a different story.

I'm not giving an exact figure because it's unknown, unknowable, varies depending on the year, varies depending on the issue, etc. But 98.6% is still a ludicrous suggestion.

Amazing fantasy had a print run of 300000 so 3700 graded copies do the math dude!So by your logic there is ten thousand more raw copies and don’t get me started on the hulk,Thor,Loki, and iron man 200000 print runs and all below 2000 graded!

Edited August 10, 2022 by Bo1983