Paying Dealers F&F, Zelle, or paying other people on their behalf = is this normal? 0

[Ecclectica]

On 10/4/2022 at 4:17 AM, Michael Browning said:

And, yes, both pieces are in my CAF gallery.

Looking at your CAF, I think I know now who he is.

Great story ! Thanks !

[Michael Browning]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:32 AM, Will_K said:

Booth or counter at the coffee shop ??  Or maybe you sat a table for the hand off ??

Back parking lot behind the coffee shop. After the transaction was complete, we then went up to the porch of the shop and he wanted a smoothie (and I’d never tried one), so I bought us both smoothies and we sat and chatted for awhile. It was then that he made the texts to his friends and talked to me about being staunchly anti-vax and kept watching to make sure no one was going to get him. Honestly, though, he was a super nice guy who just had deep concerns for his well-being. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[vodou]

#pureblood

[christosgage]

I'm not sure there is such a thing as "normal" in this hobby. But if the dealer is reputable you can probably find out why they're choosing that method and work something out. For example, if they're trying to avoid the credit card processing fee, you can offer to pay extra to cover it yourself.

[G.A.tor]

On 9/29/2022 at 3:49 PM, grapeape said:

Friends and Family should be used for actual friends or family. You have zero recourse if the transaction goes awry. It doesn't have to be the seller deliberately ripping you off.The package could go to the wrong house, get lost or stolen.

Paypal will not help you if use friends and family.

 

 

Make sure parcel is sent insured. That way if lost or stolen, etc, no money lost as a claim can be filed 

[grapeape]

On 10/15/2022 at 5:10 AM, G.A.tor said:

Make sure parcel is sent insured. That way if lost or stolen, etc, no money lost as a claim can be filed 

Thanks G.A.tor it's very important. to fully insure the art. It's amazing to me how many collectors spend four and five figures on a page and then balk at the cost of insurance. Since you mentioned it, I would just recommend everyone review PayPal terms of service and make sure you are up to date on all current  policies.

[byosti]

On 9/29/2022 at 3:49 PM, grapeape said:

Friends and Family should be used for actual friends or family. You have zero recourse if the transaction goes awry. It doesn't have to be the seller deliberately ripping you off.The package could go to the wrong house, get lost or stolen.

Paypal will not help you if use friends and family.

I know legit dealers and collectors who have used FF to exchange  costs of trade differences etc. But I've made a number of private buys using PayPal the last two years and I've paid what's now 3.49% (2.99 in 2021) of the amount + .49 in 2022 on every transaction.

I simply won't risk losing all my money on a situation gone bad.

If anyone tells you they won't take FF commercial because of fees you can go to PayPal calculator and type in the amount. It will tell you from a sellers point of view if you want $1000 you have to ask for $$1036.67. So that means you just use the commercial (not FF) option and send them $1036.67. On their end they'll only get $1000 the difference goes to PayPal.

if you use commercial and don't account for the fees the seller only gets $964.61. That's a big reason why sellers don't want you to use anything other than FF.

Then of course you wouldn't be crazy to think a business transaction cloaked as friends and family might be to avoid showing a transaction. There's a big difference between me loaning or gifting $1000 to Aunt May vs. sending J Jonah Jameson $1000 friends and family for a income generating transaction.

 

from a seller's end just found out collectibles over 10k, aren't covered under paypal's seller protections but apparently are fine for purchaser's protection. seems like a wide open opportunity for people to scam

[grapeape]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:40 PM, byosti said:

from a seller's end just found out collectibles over 10k, aren't covered under paypal's seller protections but apparently are fine for purchaser's protection. seems like a wide open opportunity for people to scam

Many dealers have collectibles insurance to offset PayPal gaps. That under $10k threshold is a sweet spot for a good number of sales in our hobby. How many of us are selling art and expecting PayPal protection as a seller?  Appreciate you pointing this out byosti.

[byosti]

On 10/18/2022 at 12:04 AM, grapeape said:

Many dealers have collectibles insurance to offset PayPal gaps. That under $10k threshold is a sweet spot for a good number of sales in our hobby. How many of us are selling art and expecting PayPal protection as a seller?  Appreciate you pointing this out byosti.

i imagine. but would a collectibles insurance company really pay out full value for a book that you knew was scammed out, despite 2 other parties(the buyer/scammer and paypal) saying there wasn't and it's on you as the seller. have you had that situation before?

[grapeape]

On 10/17/2022 at 9:24 PM, byosti said:

i imagine. but would a collectibles insurance company really pay out full value for a book that you knew was scammed out, despite 2 other parties(the buyer/scammer and paypal) saying there wasn't and it's on you as the seller. have you had that situation before?

II have not been in that situation. If anyone knows about a bad experience with collectible insurance please share it here.

I don't want to find out. My personal experience with "some" insurance companies in life not OA, I found the agency did not keep their side of the bargain. Any deals I've made are in person when it get's above $1,000 or I don't know the other person involved well enough. I also stopped oversees shipping because of problems. I'm not going to lie when I first started (ebay, etc.) I winged it a lot. I sent expensive art and comics without proper "full" insurance at first and closed my eyes and prayed things arrived. Same as a buyer.

It's human nature byosti. Sadly we often don't read the fine print or do things the right way until we get burned. "We" is a generalization so please CGC not 1000 responses about "that's not me." Stories about being  burned by "friends and family." "Empty packages sent or sent with prints and not original art."

It's a nightmare that needs navigating to safe passage.

[byosti]

On 10/18/2022 at 12:04 AM, grapeape said:

Many dealers have collectibles insurance to offset PayPal gaps. That under $10k threshold is a sweet spot for a good number of sales in our hobby. How many of us are selling art and expecting PayPal protection as a seller?  Appreciate you pointing this out byosti.

 

On 10/18/2022 at 2:16 PM, grapeape said:

II have not been in that situation. If anyone knows about a bad experience with collectible insurance please share it here.

I don't want to find out. My personal experience with "some" insurance companies in life not OA, I found the agency did not keep their side of the bargain. Any deals I've made are in person when it get's above $1,000 or I don't know the other person involved well enough. I also stopped oversees shipping because of problems. I'm not going to lie when I first started (ebay, etc.) I winged it a lot. I sent expensive art and comics without proper "full" insurance at first and closed my eyes and prayed things arrived. Same as a buyer.

It's human nature byosti. Sadly we often don't read the fine print or do things the right way until we get burned. "We" is a generalization so please CGC not 1000 responses about "that's not me." Stories about being  burned by "friends and family." "Empty packages sent or sent with prints and not original art."

It's a nightmare that needs navigating to safe passage.

seems there's a big hole in the payment/insurance marketplace for protecting against these types of situations without going through a 3rd party, especially if a site like paypal caps protections for seller(but not the buyer) at 10k. I would have to recheck ebay's terms but it's almost if as a seller, for high dollar items over 10k, you would have more protection agreeing to a price, then listing it on ebay for that buyer to make the agreed upon offer and accept. If you have an ebay store, you're getting about the same fee rate as paypal anyway.