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Started by Wally's Comics,

44 posts in this topic

mstryinspc-migration

mstryinspc-migration

Posted
Posted
When a book has half as many high grade copies as the next, it makes it scarcer.

 

Only 39 9.2 and above ain't that much.

 

#62 has 61 in 9.4 and 135 over 9.2

#59 has 51 in 9.4 and 119 over 9.2.

#58 and #61 are both well over 50.

#57 is at 88.

 

No it makes the data skewed because this is not a actual cenus it a submission report.

If a large number of HG ASM #60 do not want to like or feel the need to grade their book you erroneously assume that means it is scarce. What it means is they have not been submitted.

That is all.

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DKB

DKB

Posted
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The reason they haven't been submitted is because they aren't as plentiful in high grade. Both of those books, 60 and 63 (and I'll toss in 104 and 151, check those census numbers too) sport black covers, just like #28. People are more likely to submit books that are in high grade. We aren't talking about a book with 20 submissions as opposed to one with 15. We are talking books with 200+ submissions. The sample data is plentiful enough to draw the sort of conclusions we are drawing here.

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The Less Blob

The Less Blob

Posted
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"I own several ungraded copies - all in the 9.0 to 9.4 range"

 

and maybe when you send them in to CGC, they decide they're in the 8.0 - 8.5 range?

 

looking at similarly priced issues around a given issue is probably a good measure. i don't think people with nice #60s don't send them in, but send #61 in. that doesn't make much sense.

 

we're not talking about a scarce book here, obviously, just harder to find in HG than the ones around it. and something like that only need to be somewhat harder to find to sell for more of a premium than other books similarly situated. for example, people may be more likely to buy and hold their nice copy because they're harder to find. so fewer copies floating around the market, creating more bidding war scenarios.

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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted

CGC or no, Census or no, Spidey 60 and 63 have always been, and continue to be, notably hard to find in high grade with respect to the rest of the mid-silver age Spideys. Wonder what GPA has to say about the relative prices of these two? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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Tomega

Tomega

Posted
Posted
"I own several ungraded copies - all in the 9.0 to 9.4 range"

 

and maybe when you send them in to CGC, they decide they're in the 8.0 - 8.5 range?

 

 

True, but I like the odds of getting a 9.0 to 9.4 when of the 30 books I have sent in they all met grade except for 2.

 

It seems we agree that this is not a scarce book. I think people tend to think something is scarce in high grade when it has a black cover.

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dc360

dc360

Posted
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I guess that black cover is just too hard to find in great shape!

 

I must be missing something here too. Because looking even at the older SA Spideys, they seem to be well represented, including the almost completely black covered #28...

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DKB

DKB

Posted
Posted
I guess that black cover is just too hard to find in great shape!

 

I must be missing something here too. Because looking even at the older SA Spideys, they seem to be well represented, including the almost completely black covered #28...

 

Econ majors you are not. Everything is relative and folks seem to be missing that.

 

Everyone knows no issue of ASM is scarce. They are not scarce in high grade. However, 60 and 63 are less plentiful in high grade and the census bears that out. The reason there are so many ASMs on the census is not only because he was among the most popular characters then, but because he IS the most popular now and his title is far and away the biggest seller in the market.

 

39 issues 9.2 and above is alot, likely more than any other non key Silver book that isn't ASM, but its not enough supply for the demand, soooooooo what's that mean now for a book like 60 compared to a book like 64? Class?

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
39 issues 9.2 and above is alot, likely more than any other non key Silver book that isn't ASM, but its not enough supply for the demand, soooooooo what's that mean now for a book like 60 compared to a book like 64? Class?

 

I agree...but collectors know that black covers show significant stress in relation to other covers. I tend to think collectors, and I'm not talking about extreme HG connoisseurs, know that the dark covers will be harder to obtain in HG. So their "requirements" for lower grades will suffice. The problem with dark covers isn't that other colored covers are more plentiful...it's the color that hides the defects. A 9.4 graded black cover is the same as a 9.6/9.8 white cover...the only difference is the defects are less noticeable...

 

Jim

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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted
The problem with dark covers isn't that other colored covers are more plentiful...it's the color that hides the defects. A 9.4 graded black cover is the same as a 9.6/9.8 white cover...the only difference is the defects are less noticeable...

 

Jim

 

Sort of...black inks are actually more succeptible to cracking/stressing than other colors (or so I've learned on the forums - Dicex maybe?), so black-covered books really are more "fragile" than white covered books. Add in the fact that stresses appear more prominent on black-covered books, and it's not surprising that these books are much tougher in high grade.

 

Here are the census numbers for Spideys 55-64:

 

Amazing Spider-Man 54 (1967) - 193

Amazing Spider-Man 55 (1967) - 156

Amazing Spider-Man 56 (1968) - 248

Amazing Spider-Man 57 (1968) - 223

Amazing Spider-Man 58 (1968) - 222

Amazing Spider-Man 59 (1968) - 337

Amazing Spider-Man 60 (1968) - 138

Amazing Spider-Man 61 (1968) - 172

Amazing Spider-Man 62 (1968) - 301

Amazing Spider-Man 63 (1968) - 118

Amazing Spider-Man 64 (1968) - 397

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted

OK...we've estabished that...it still doesn't negate the fact that lighter covers hide defects better than black covers. So essentially...a white cover higher grade is this same as a lower grade dark cover. The only difference is the lighter grade hides the defects better...

 

To say they are less plentiful in HG isn't really true as far as comparable issues are concerned...

 

Jim

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

Posted
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To say they are less plentiful in HG isn't really true as far as comparable issues are concerned...

 

Jim

 

According to CGC, they are. Buy the label!

 

Only if you take CGC's word as gospel... yeahok.gif

 

Jim

 

 

Amen and Praise be the Borock...Hallelujah! thumbsup2.gif

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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted
To say they are less plentiful in HG isn't really true as far as comparable issues are concerned...

 

Jim

 

What do you mean "comparable issues"? The census data shows that these are clearly less plentiful in HG than the surrounding issues.

 

I collected Silver Age Spideys for 10+ years before CGC came along, and was never able to find high grade copies of Spidey 60 and 63, among others. CGC's data merely puts some type of quantitative metric on how much scarcer they are... confused-smiley-013.gif

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
To say they are less plentiful in HG isn't really true as far as comparable issues are concerned...

 

Jim

 

What do you mean "comparable issues"? The census data shows that these are clearly less plentiful in HG than the surrounding issues.

 

I understand what the "census" says...what I'm saying is those HG copies of "lighter" copies are graded higher because the flaws are more easily hidden. You could have the same comparable copy of a 9.4 then one that is graded 9.6 if the cover is white...

 

No difference in the condition of the comic...just the grade is different because of the color, and the apparent flaws that show up, of the cover...

 

Jim

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squidmo2000

squidmo2000

Posted
Posted

I bidded $255 on that book,thinking I had a fair shot of winning it.I can tell you from experience(#60 is the only book I'm missing in the first 70 ASM's I own)that this book is very tough in grade.I wanted a 9.2,but after looking at this last auction I may have to settle on 9.0............ confused-smiley-013.gif

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The Less Blob

The Less Blob

Posted
Posted

wouldn't cgc see these allegedly "hidden" flaws and grade accordingly? spine stresses, for one, are generally much worse looking on a dark cover book. it's not that the white cover "hides" them, they can still be seen, the dark cover just makes them look worse (due to the contrast when the dark ink cracks and you see the light paper color behind it) and hence they get a worse grade.

 

or are you saying grading ought to be relative and on a curve, so that the top 2% or whatver get NM or higher and the grade ought not be impacted by some books being more prone to damage than others?

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