MODERN/ IMPRESSIONIST RESULTS,...November 1 - CHRISTIES

[krazykat-migration]

http://www.christies.com/auction/results/results_lotlist.asp?saleno=NYC1570

 

Really amazing the $$$ flowing into art.

[rob_react]

We already discussed this auction, no? At least the top lot.

[krazykat-migration]

We already discussed this auction, no? At least the top lot.

 

 

Yes. But I wasnt aware of the breadth of positive results across the board. Average sale was wayyyyyyyy over $2 Million. Truly MIND BOGGLING, to me.

 

KK

[delekkerste]

Really amazing the $$$ flowing into art.

 

There is some seriously stupid $$$ flowing into art these days from a lot of hedge fund guys with more money than they know what to do with. I can almost (but not quite) comprehend the $ amounts for the Old Masters, Impressionists and a few select others, but these 8-figure sales of modern & contemporary artists' work that look like they could have been created by children is, IMHO, stupid. Oh, I'm sorry, I guess this stuff is really "deep". In the next big economic downturn, a lot of this stuff is going to plummet in value.

 

Well, I don't think anyone is ever going to think of comic book art as being so deep & thought-provoking that they will want to spend millions of dollars on it, so I don't think that we collectors (those of us who aren't just out to try and make a killing on the art) have anything to worry about. Especially since that anyone with half a brain and a modicum of taste could buy some seriously nice fine art instead of, say, the Captain America #1 cover for the $5 million you claim the latter is worth.

[krazykat-migration]

OA is so severely undervalued that NO WAY will there be a correction for many, many years. The days of ASM Romita Large Art Covers at 50K or less are long gone,...and if you can find one for under 100K,..let me know. There are many similar artists in which available examples on market dont exist,..let alone any forseeable discount premised on your erroneous belief that we are 'at the top' of the OA market (per one of your recent rambling messages). That said,...you are entitled to your belief (yes, yes we all know your a Market hedgefund guru),...BUT,...

 

THE PROOF WILL BE IN THE PUDDIN' !

 

 

KK

[Aman619]

but these 8-figure sales of modern & contemporary artists' work that look like they could have been created by children is, IMHO, stupid. Oh, I'm sorry, I guess this stuff is really "deep". In the next big economic downturn, a lot of this stuff is going to plummet in value.

 

KK is an insufficiently_thoughtful_person and by and large I agree with you about comic art... but this was a silly comment that hurts your credibility on the subject. sorry. That old chectnut generalization about any art looking "like my kids could do it" just is meaningless. Looks are decieving in art. And "deep" is a cheap shot too. Not every painting has to have a recognizable inage to be 'attractive.'

 

and anyway, nearly the whole "art game" is about hype. If the gallery owners whisper in the ladies and rich young hipsters' ears that these artists are the "ones to buy", they do. It has ever been thus, no?

 

and did I say KK is an insufficiently_thoughtful_person?

[delekkerste]

KK is an insufficiently_thoughtful_person and by and large I agree with you about comic art... but this was a silly comment that hurts your credibility on the subject. sorry. That old chectnut generalization about any art looking "like my kids could do it" just is meaningless. Looks are decieving in art. And "deep" is a cheap shot too. Not every painting has to have a recognizable inage to be 'attractive.'

 

You're entitled to your own opinion, but we'll see who's "silly" when the most egregious examples of modern/contemporary "art" fall 90+% in value in the coming years. There will be a valuation shift, mark my words, from the worst examples of abstraction back to items of enduring beauty. Paying ridiculous amounts of money for is just the kind of behavior that you get from all the bubbles we've had that have created so much stupid money looking for a place to go. Let's see what happens when (not if) the art market hits another period like the early to mid-1990s.

 

Sorry you didn't like the "my kids could do it" comment, but that was practically verbatim from a story on CNBC the other night about that "sculpture" that just sold for $23 million or thereabouts. It's not far from the truth and I'm sure many art world people would express similar sentiments behind closed doors (especially from the ones who, like myself, prefer non-abstract art). Though, some will even express them in public. I just read an interview last week with a prominent artist (Wyeth, maybe?) who basically said that much of modern and contemporary art is $h#t but that he liked Picasso although Matisse was cr&p. I can't say I disagree and I don't think it hurts my "credibility" one bit. Let's just agree to disagree.

[rob_react]

Though, some will even express them in public. I just read an interview last week with a prominent artist (Wyeth, maybe?) who basically said that much of modern and contemporary art is $h#t but that he liked Picasso although Matisse was cr&p.

 

Interestingly Wyeth was treated to at least some of the same from the "other" side in last month's ARTNews. It was a cover article about him titled something like "Sophisticated or Sentimental" and it was filled with warring opinions about the validity of his work. At least some people were pretty rough on him.

 

(personally I like his stuff)

[delekkerste]

Interestingly Wyeth was treated to at least some of the same from the "other" side in last month's ARTNews. It was a cover article about him titled something like "Sophisticated or Sentimental" and it was filled with warring opinions about the validity of his work. At least some people were pretty rough on him.

 

Yeah, that issue has been in my bathroom for the past couple of months.

[Aman619]

KK is an insufficiently_thoughtful_person and by and large I agree with you about comic art... but this was a silly comment that hurts your credibility on the subject. sorry. That old chectnut generalization about any art looking "like my kids could do it" just is meaningless. Looks are decieving in art. And "deep" is a cheap shot too. Not every painting has to have a recognizable inage to be 'attractive.'

 

You're entitled to your own opinion, but we'll see who's "silly" when the most egregious examples of modern/contemporary "art" fall 90+% in value in the coming years. There will be a valuation shift, mark my words, from the worst examples of abstraction back to items of enduring beauty. Paying ridiculous amounts of money for is just the kind of behavior that you get from all the bubbles we've had that have created so much stupid money looking for a place to go. Let's see what happens when (not if) the art market hits another period like the early to mid-1990s.

 

Sorry you didn't like the "my kids could do it" comment, but that was practically verbatim from a story on CNBC the other night about that "sculpture" that just sold for $23 million or thereabouts. It's not far from the truth and I'm sure many art world people would express similar sentiments behind closed doors (especially from the ones who, like myself, prefer non-abstract art). Though, some will even express them in public. I just read an interview last week with a prominent artist (Wyeth, maybe?) who basically said that much of modern and contemporary art is $h#t but that he liked Picasso although Matisse was cr&p. I can't say I disagree and I don't think it hurts my "credibility" one bit. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

I wasnt talking about the prices or the values or where the market may go for pieces that look like my kid could do it. As you know, any walk through MOMA yields any number of comments similar to that about a lot of the pieces that their kids could have done (Why is it their kids anyway - - if its so easy, why cant THEY do it too?). I merely point out that many themes, styles and discoveries in painting/art are reached only after long honest serious effort to focus on one "idea" or subject of fascination to the artist. and often the end result is so simple as to looks childish, or easy. And even is the final canvas is easily duplicatable, the process wasn't. The Discovery of that 'purity or simple' -ness holds the value and fascination.

 

AND, of course, much of what is sold as art IS truly [embarrassing lack of self control]. But the tipping point ISN'T whether it LOOKS like a kid could do it is my point.

 

Mondrian is a joke right? all those simple boxes. sheeeute! I doodle them all day long.

How about even a pop artist like Leroy Neiman? He just drips paint! not to mention Pollack (oops, I just did)

 

I just get upset at the old chestnut generaliziation and feel you know better.

 

anyway, I agree that lots a sheety "art" gets "moved" in galleries and auctions for staggering prices...its a big shell game overall on the selling end, but much of it is honestly created. Probably not enough though.

 

so overall, we disagree to agree.

[krazykat-migration]

Delicatessen,

 

Do you think of yourself as a 'art snob' ? MAYBE, just be open minded for a second, you are ?

 

I honestly find your comments so 'out of touch with the art' that I am convinced you don't understand Art GENERALLY and where Comic Art sits SPECIFICALLY.

 

You are an aesthetic realist which is part of the reason you dont like Matisee and can RATIONALIZE the Old Masters as perhaps worthy of $MEGA BUCKS$ but not most of today's Modern Art. I am convinced you simply lack the faculties to appreciate art beyond your linear aesthetic. And please dont cite Modern artists that you like, I get the fact that you are probably well informed.

 

KK

 

[delekkerste]

Do you think of yourself as a 'art snob' ? MAYBE, just be open minded for a second, you are ?

 

So anyone who doesn't think Romita twice-up Spidey art is worth millions of dollars and deserves to be displayed prominently in top art museums around the world next to Picasso, Monet, etc. is an "art snob"?

 

 

I honestly find your comments so 'out of touch with the art' that I am convinced you don't understand Art GENERALLY and where Comic Art sits SPECIFICALLY.

 

I enjoy comic books and comic book art. I have even been known to both read and collect the stuff. I am simply recognizing comic art for what it is and what it isn't. It should be clear to everyone that you have a single-minded agenda to promote the investment merits of comic art, whether by your outlandish auction predictions or by constantly trying to link comic art with hobbies/genres (such as fine art, music memorabilia, etc.) where values can be much higher.

 

And, if you think my comments are "out of touch", I'd like to know what you consider telling some college kid to take out a big student loan to invest in comic art to be.

 

 

I am convinced you simply lack the faculties to appreciate art beyond your linear aesthetic.

 

The only thing linear here is your linear extrapolation of past price gains indefinitely into the future without regard for hobby, demographic and economic trends.

[krazykat-migration]

Delicatessen,

 

Your methodology of discourse is just as 'suspect' as mine so please dont tell me what my agenda is.

 

You can bounce back and forth between your aesthetic principles and market principles as much you want but you are 'spinning like a top'. And I really dont respect your aesthetics or market analysis.

 

As I said,....

 

 

There really isnt much more to discuss unless you wanna wager a specific point. For example, Id wager that if the right ASM Cover came to market it would reach 500K. The question is not demand but supply.

 

KK

[Aman619]

For example, Id wager that if the right ASM Cover came to market it would reach 500K. The question is not demand but supply.

 

KK

 

Ill take that bet. No friggen way ANY Spidey cover AF15 included sells for 500K. Yoire on. Now all you have to do is put one of "your" covers up for sale to prove yourself right!

[krazykat-migration]

For example, Id wager that if the right ASM Cover came to market it would reach 500K. The question is not demand but supply.

 

KK

 

Ill take that bet. No friggen way ANY Spidey cover AF15 included sells for 500K. Yoire on. Now all you have to do is put one of "your" covers up for sale to prove yourself right!

 

My covers are not for sale. Nevertheless, I know that their are other covers that should hit the market when the stars are lined up properly. GUARANTEED that if is the right cover it goes for $500k easy. The AF 15, 1, 2,3 ,5, 6, 7, 9,14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 23, 27, 33, 39, 40, 46 and 50 would hit that number with no problem.

 

Stay Tuned...

 

KK

[Timulty]

Never underestimate the power of a well advertised Auction. Also, there is a sucker born every minute. A sucker with 500K just waiting for the opportunity to spend it on an un-merited piece of OA.

[TLC55555]

I fully believe the true original (not SmellyK's fantasy pieces) cover artwork to AF #15 or ASM #1 could reach $500,000. Of course, these aren't the only covers that have that possibility. I'd add a COUPLE other Silver (FF #1, Avengers #1, etc.) and SEVERAL Gold (Action #1, Detective #27, Batman #1, Superman #1, Marvel Mystery #1, etc.) covers to that list.

[krazykat-migration]

Never underestimate the power of a well advertised Auction. Also, there is a sucker born every minute. A sucker with 500K just waiting for the opportunity to spend it on an un-merited piece of OA.

 

Heck, if we are talking ASM #1 or AF #15 .........NO WAY,...NO WAY do either go for less than $1 MILLION...AND EVEN AS HIGH AS $5 Million.

 

And sucker ?,...and unmerited ?

 

Firstly,....He who laughs last,..laughs the best.

 

Secondly,....umerited based on what ?

 

KK

[Timulty]

The fact that those AF #15 merits it versus say Detective #1, Detective

#27, Action #1, Marvel #1 etc.

 

I don't believe there is an SA cover that would merit it. I am not even sure that the GA's I mentioned would merit it to be honest. But they would be much closer to getting 500K then AF #15.

[krazykat-migration]

The fact that those AF #15 merits it versus say Detective #1, Detective

#27, Action #1, Marvel #1 etc.

 

I don't believe there is an SA cover that would merit it. I am not even sure that the GA's I mentioned would merit it to be honest. But they would be much closer to getting 500K then AF #15.

 

YOU ARE WRONG