Transformers (1984) #3 Never Before Seen (? Probably not) Fourth Print? 3 3

[Beyonder123]

On 10/25/2022 at 12:43 PM, Lazyboy said:

1. That's not how it works/worked.

2. The multi-packs are not from Marvel, they just contain Marvel comics. I'm not sure who distributed them or when.

1. You seem to have said alot about how things "didn't" work. If you have some sort of insider information on the inner machinations of 80s marvel comic distribution, please feel free to elaborate.

2. Whoever distributed the multipacks evidently had the licensing rights to use both the company name, logo, and characters on the bags. So again, if you have evidence for this claim, feel free to show it.

[MetalPSI]

Uh multipacks are just redistributions, right?

Like Wal-Mart would say, ok I want so many multipacks to put on the cashier end caps, they pay the distributor who then seals them up and ships them out

 

[wardevil0]

On 10/26/2022 at 6:44 AM, MetalPSI said:

Uh multipacks are just redistributions, right?

Like Wal-Mart would say, ok I want so many multipacks to put on the cashier end caps, they pay the distributor who then seals them up and ships them out

 

Mostly... the only exceptions I can think of are the Whitman DCs, the DC Universe label, and the "Multipack" variant Marvels, aka Whitman Marvels, aka "Fat Diamond" Marvels.  CGC now recognizes these as multipack editions: CGC news article about newsstands and multipacks

I'm not sure if some of the later printings of GI Joe, Thundercats, Transformers, and Secret Wars were available outside multipacks, or if these should be considered multipack exclusives?

[CrocHntr]

I have a Transformers #4-#6 multipack.  I'll take a look tonight to see what the back cover is on those and will report back 

[Beyonder123]

On 10/26/2022 at 8:48 AM, CrocHntr said:

I have a Transformers #4-#6 multipack.  I'll take a look tonight to see what the back cover is on those and will report back 

My prediction is #4 - Risk, and #5 and 6 - Payday

[CrocHntr]

On 10/26/2022 at 11:48 AM, CrocHntr said:

I have a Transformers #4-#6 multipack.  I'll take a look tonight to see what the back cover is on those and will report back 

 

On 10/26/2022 at 4:03 PM, Beyonder123 said:

My prediction is #4 - Risk, and #5 and 6 - Payday

Not very exciting news, but seems like the multipack back covers for #4-#6 are the same as their standalone counterparts. 
 

Heres #4 back cover in multipack.  Risk

And #5 Noxzema Acne

And #6 Reach for the Stars

 

Then I have multiple copies of #4-6 both newsstand and direct, and all back covers align

#4

 

#5

And #6

[Beyonder123]

On 10/26/2022 at 1:24 PM, Lazyboy said:

Who or what is "Marvel Books" and why do you think they were just Marvel (Comics)? Marvel Comics was a publisher, not a distributor.

I never said they were the same company. Marvel Comics Group was a division of the parent company "Cadence Industries". Which "Marvel Books" also happened to be.

It's not like some random joe shmoe found a warehouse of books and started polybagging and flipping them to make a quick buck. The polybags were specifically made and licensed by Marvels parent company. As others have said, these multipacks were largely distributed and Marvel would never allow direct competition to use their characters, name, and logo on their product.

But in case you don't believe me here's more 80s ephemera where the name and logo is used. As well as info inside.

 

[Beyonder123]

On 10/26/2022 at 2:30 PM, CrocHntr said:

 

Not very exciting news, but seems like the multipack back covers for #4-#6 are the same as their standalone counterparts. 

Unfortunate. But not 100 percent unexpected. This does lend more credence to issue 4 not having any subsequent printings.

As shown before there are 2 different versions of the 1-3 multi pack. One with all first printings, and one with all second printings. Again perhaps there are multiple releases of the multipacks that were released on different months with different ads. I don't know how one would prove (if it is indeed the case) that the subsequent printings weren't available on store shelves individually. Maybe sales logs, old photos, personal recollection?

Also here's some photos of my copies of 5 and 6 so people don't think I'm crazy.

[CrocHntr]

Different back on 5 and 6 just thickens the plot.  I doubt this is the case, but wouldn’t be Regional or anything, would it?  All mine (except multi-pack) I purchased locally when they were released.

[Beyonder123]

On 10/26/2022 at 7:27 PM, CrocHntr said:

Different back on 5 and 6 just thickens the plot.  I doubt this is the case, but wouldn’t be Regional or anything, would it?  All mine (except multi-pack) I purchased locally when they were released.

I don't belive so. The reason is because the advertisements in what I think to be the reprints, match the advertisements that would be used in later issues. Also some of these "reprints" have a marvel checklist that matches the marvel checklist several issues forward.

For example. The 3rd print (indicia marked), of Transformers #3, has the Noxema Acne ad on the back. This would then be used on the standard edition of Transformers #5 nine months later. It seems to me the simpler answer is that the third print of issue 1 came out at the same time as Transformers #5.

Of course the problem is I don't have all of these printings or the ability to check to make sure the interior ads match up 100 percent.

[Beyonder123]

Someone pointed me in another direction yesterday. Looks like Smurfs was another one with multiple printings yet no notation in the indicia. I'm waiting for pictures from him of the interiors to confirm the lack of notation.

CGC notes 3 printings of this one.

 

[marvelmaniac]

 

 

[Beyonder123]

So I have just finished compiling a list of the first 9 issues which all have different printings (minus 4). As well as their front page ads, back cover ads, and back interior cover ads. I then matched these ads with their first print counterpart to come up with a release month. Basically just an upgraded version of the first list. Several interesting things popped up.

Transformers #1 - Inside Cover: Last Starfighter, Inside Back Cover: Muppets Take Manhattan, Back Cover: Star Wars (09/84)

Transformers #1 (Second Print) - Inside Cover: Gobots, Inside Back Cover: Indiana Jones, Back Cover: Risk (03/85)

Transformers #1 (Third Print) - Inside Cover: Rip Offs, Back Cover: Acne 12 (06/85)

Transformers #2 - Inside Cover: Mario Bros, Inside Back Cover: Dungeons and Dragons, Back Cover: Star Wars (11/84)

Transformers #2 (Second Print) - Risk (03/85)

Transformers #2 (Third Print) - Acne 12 (06/85)

Transformers #3 - Inside Cover: Mario Bros, Inside Back Cover: Dungeons And Dragons, Back Cover: Star Wars (11/84)

Transformers #3 - Inside Cover: Monogram, Inside Back Cover: Activision, Back Cover: Montezuma (01/85)

Transformers #3 (Second Print) - Risk (03/85)

Transformers #3 (Third Print) - Inside Cover: Rip Offs, Inside Back Cover: Star Comics, Back Cover: Acne 12 (06/85)

Transformers #4 - Inside Front Cover: Go Bots, Inside Back Cover: Indiana Jones, Back Cover: Risk (03/85)

Transformers #4 - Inside Back Cover: Secret Wars II, Back Cover: Pay Day (08/85)

Transformers #5 - Inside Cover: Rip Offs, Inside Back Cover: Star Comics, Back Cover: Acne 12 (06/85)

Transformers #5 - Inside Cover: Noxema, Inside Back Cover: Secret Wars II, Back Cover: Payday (08/85)

Transformers #6 - Inside Front Cover: Reeses Pieces, Inside Back Cover: Huffy, Back Cover: Astronaut (07/85)

Transformers #6 - Inside Cover: Noxema, Inside Back Cover: Secret Wars II, Back Cover: Pay Day (08/85)

Transformers #7 - Inside Cover: Noxema, Inside Back Cover: Secret Wars II, Back Cover: Pay Day (08/85)

Transformers #7 (Second Print) - Back Cover: Pay Day (08/85)

Transformers #7 (Third Print) - Inside Cover: Astronaut, Inside Back Cover: Bullpen Bullitins, Back Cover: Honeycomb (11/85)

Transformers #8 - Inside Cover: Secret Wars II, Inside Back Cover: Star Comics, Back Cover: Astronaut (09/85)

Transformers #8 (Second Print) - Inside Cover: Astronaut, Inside Back Cover: Bullpen Bullitins, Back Cover: Honeycomb (11/85)

Transformers #9 - Inside Cover: Astronaut, Inside Back Cover: Secret Wars II, Back Cover: Rip Offs (10/85)

Transformers #9 (Second Print) - Inside Cover: Astronaut, Inside Back Cover: Bullpen Bullitins, Back Cover: Honeycomb (11/85)

So the things that stood out. 

There are more printings noted in the indicia for a few more. So I was wrong about that. Issues 5, 6 and perhaps 2 and 7? Are the only ones that are not marked. I only say that about issue 2 because I was unable to find photos of the indicia for the second or third print, however I imagine when one turns up there's a good possibility it will in fact be noted. The problem with issue 7 is I still am unable to locate a second print, or even a photo of the back cover of a second print for that issue. Very strange.

With this completed list we can now make a timeline of release dates for everything.

09/84

- Issue 1 first print

11/84

- Issue 2 first print, Issue 3 first print?

01/85

- Issue 3 first print, 

03/85

- Issue 1 second print, issue 2 second print, issue 3 second print, issue 4 first print

06/85

- issue 1 third print, issue 2 third print, issue 3 third print, issue 5 first print

07/85

- Issue 6 first print

08/85

- issue 4 second print, issue 5 second print, issue 6 second print, issue 7 first print, 7 second print

09/85

- issue 8 first print

10/85

- issue 9 first print

11/85

- issue 7 third print, 8 second print, #9 second print, issue 10 first print

What is remarkable about this is that we can see a clear pattern of newest issue, and then 3 printings of 3 consecutive previous issues. This would line up perfectly with multipack releases. March of 85', a multipack with issues 1-3 is released alongside issue 4. Knowing they will release another multipack they print extra copies of issue 4. This is why there are no subsequent printings of issue 4. June of 85' the multipack is re-released alongside issue 5. August of 85' a multipack with issues 4-6 is released alongside issue 7. There's a possibility that a multipack is released alongside issue 8 in September of 85' with issues 5-7 unmarked in the indicia. This would explain why issues 5 and 6 aren't marked and issue 7 seems to have no second print. But until one is found this is just speculation. And finally the last multipack is released in November of 85' with issues 7-9 alongside issue 10. 

Feedback again would be appreciated. This makes me feel even more strongly that the extra printings are multipack editions.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Beyonder123

[Lazyboy]

On 10/30/2022 at 11:05 PM, Beyonder123 said:

This makes me feel even more strongly that the extra printings are multipack editions.

Of course they were printed specially for multi-packs. Marvel didn't even reprint books like ASM 252 for the regular market due to demand.

But if Marvel really was the one behind these packs, why didn't they just order more copies of the first prints instead of having them reprinted later?

[Beyonder123]

On 10/31/2022 at 1:40 PM, Lazyboy said:

Of course they were printed specially for multi-packs. Marvel didn't even reprint books like ASM 252 for the regular market due to demand.

But if Marvel really was the one behind these packs, why didn't they just order more copies of the first prints instead of having them reprinted later?

Well that's the whole point of second printings. Lack of foresight for the demand of a book. You run out of copies of your first printing and so there is a need for another print.

You can even see per my outline that they did use first printings when available. The 4-6 Multipacks all have first print copies of issue 4.

(Edit: additionally through contributions on this thread we know there are 4-6 multipacks that exist with all first printings)

I don't think whether or not Marvel made the multipacks is even a debate at this point. And whether Marvel distributed them or Joe Blow did is moot. The point of the matter is exactly what you said; they were printed specifically for the multipacks. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Beyonder123

[Beyonder123]

As a follow up, I also think it's important to outline something Lazyboy said regarding ASM 252. Despite insane demand for the book, there was never a second printing. So with that knowledge, why would the second and third prints of these Transformers books be available as individual issues on store shelves? 

What we can prove is that these editions were in fact available in multipacks. It's not provable that they weren't sold as individual issues, but given the evidence it's unlikely. And either way if someone is making the claim that they were sold individually, the burden of proof rests with that person.

There's a local shop that has been around since the 80s that was tight with a big comic distributor in the area at the time. Ill try to ask him about it this sunday.

[Lazyboy]

On 10/31/2022 at 7:35 PM, Beyonder123 said:

Well that's the whole point of second printings. Lack of foresight for the demand of a book. You run out of copies of your first printing and so there is a need for another print.

Again, Marvel was not doing that (additional printings based on unforeseen demand) at the time. These were special orders for a different market.

On 10/31/2022 at 7:35 PM, Beyonder123 said:

You can even see per my outline that they did use first printings when available. The 4-6 Multipacks all have first print copies of issue 4.

That makes even less sense. #6 should have been the first print issue in those packs.

On 10/31/2022 at 7:35 PM, Beyonder123 said:

I don't think whether or not Marvel distributed the multipacks is even a debate at this point. Whether Marvel distributed them (which they did) or Joe Blow did is moot.

Again, Marvel was not a distributor. Marvel didn't get into distribution until their brief, failed attempt in the mid-90s that ended with Diamond's monopoly in the Direct market.

Over the years, Marvel has printed many things on their products that are not literally/objectively true, so a display that reads "Distributed by Marvel Books" means little to me. If somebody was ordering a ton of comics from Marvel, I'm sure they would have no problem licensing them some images for some bags that contained their product.

Curtis Circulation was owned by Marvel's parent company and they did, of course, distribute Marvel comics, but they were a newsstand distributor.

On 10/31/2022 at 7:35 PM, Beyonder123 said:

The point of the matter is exactly what you said; they were printed specifically for the multipacks. 

But... so what? Is this news? Have people been claiming otherwise? Why does that matter?

[Beyonder123]

@Lazyboy so, I had a bunch written out as a response, but the page refreshed and I lost most of it so I will keep it as brief as possible.

I'm not trying to argue about this, but simply understand it. I'm using this thread to better understand all the different printings of these books, when they were released, and how they were released. I'm sure we actually agree on most things about this. The big hangup is whether or not "Marvel Books" actually distributed these or rather some other distributor using the name. I'm inclined to believe the first, but all in all I don't think it's super important.

We both agree that the subsequent printings were only released in multipacks. We both agree on the release dates (I would assume), and we both agree that Curtis was not the distributor. 

As for my outlines, they aren't final or official and I'm sure they will change. I just want to know what combinations of multipacks existed and when they were released. Obviously some packs were re released, and there's some correlation between that and the printings (can we agree on that?) 

As for this being something new or unknown I think this really is something that is new and unknown to most people. CGC is recognizing other types of multipack editions and I think this should be noted too. I also think this would be a good resource for people who want to better understand them.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Beyonder123

[Beyonder123]

On 10/31/2022 at 1:40 PM, Lazyboy said:

But if Marvel really was the one behind these packs, why didn't they just order more copies of the first prints instead of having them reprinted later?

I also want to better explain this. Multipack 4-6 would have been released alongside issue 6 in July. In August multipack 4-6 would have been re released. This time with a first print of issue 4, and second prints of 5 and 6, alongside issue 7.

But like you said, why a first print of issue 4 in the multipack, and not issue 6. I honestly can't solidly answer that. My theory would be they printed second prints of 5 and 6 to accompany extra copies of issue 4. But I could only prove that if I found a multipack with these exact printings in them. 

Again, did Marvel distribute these? You think not, I think so, but regardless of who distributed them, there has to be some sort of pattern to the arrangement.

[Lazyboy]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:57 PM, Beyonder123 said:

CGC is recognizing other types of multipack editions and I think this should be noted too.

Yup, there it is.

These are already recognized as the later printings they are. The multi-pack editions that CGC recognizes are first printings (just don't look too deep into the DCUs ) that differ from the standard edition, not reprints. These have no reason to be noted as such and I highly doubt CGC will do so.