Overrated Key "First" Books 5 5

[Lazyboy]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:18 PM, sfcityduck said:

Chuck's ads helped me complete my X-Men run.  But, his pricing was idiosyncratic. And it varied wildly.  Check out another ad of his with the same expiration date:

Micronauts 1 was twice the price of 181. 180 and 182 weren't broken out yet.  181 was only a $1 buck over $180.  And I can assure you that he was probably on the cutting edge of pricing 181 over 180.  But he could be a trend setter.  After all he was the guy who duped the OPG and fandom generally with the whole "limited distribution" lie about Conan 3 (I think).

That's the full version of the ad I cropped and put on the left of my composite image.

[johnenock]

Ove-rated:

All-Star Comics 58 

I own quite few copies but the story is unreadable. A character who is only really collected for a couple reasons. I am sure once she is in a movie this book will be even more over-rated.

[sfcityduck]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:27 PM, Lazyboy said:

That's the full version of the ad I cropped and put on the left of my composite image.

Ah.  I get it.  I looked at the prices on the right and the date on the left.  Didn't realize it was more than one ad.  As I said, Chuck was idiosyncratic with his pricing.  As OPG says (definitely used to say), back then "prices varied wildly."

[sfcityduck]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:29 PM, johnenock said:

Ove-rated:

All-Star Comics 58 

I own quite few copies but the story is unreadable. A character who is only really collected for a couple reasons. I am sure once she is in a movie this book will be even more over-rated.

I think you meant a pair of reasons.

[Readcomix]

On 1/24/2023 at 11:21 PM, sfcityduck said:

There's really nothing surprising here as long as you realize that covers matter more than first appearances in the current CGC driven market.  A bad cover depresses the value of a first appearance.  Just ask Doctor Strange and Wonder Woman and a host of other characters.  

But the first appearance is still the first appearance.  And folks who want to create new marketing terms like "first full appearance" are just engaging in or feeding puffery designed to swell prices not expand knowledge.

Exactly, and I would add that they are also disregarding content-driven context, which is the root of comics as collectibles. 
Of course, in an era of slabs, classic covers on pedestrian books get their day in the sun too, and I would take nothing away from, for example, any of those great Baker covers on Cinderella Love.

 

[Readcomix]

On 1/24/2023 at 11:29 PM, johnenock said:

Ove-rated:

All-Star Comics 58 

I own quite few copies but the story is unreadable. A character who is only really collected for a couple reasons. I am sure once she is in a movie this book will be even more over-rated.

I remember reading that as a kid and thinking “You bring back the JSA in their own book and you’re going to feature these three????” 

[Lazyboy]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:21 PM, sfcityduck said:

There's really nothing surprising here as long as you realize that covers matter more than first appearances in the current CGC driven market.  A bad cover depresses the value of a first appearance.  Just ask Doctor Strange and Wonder Woman and a host of other characters.  

There are multiple factors that combine to create values. First appearances are a big one, but absolutely not the only one. And it's impossible to say that covers matter more than first appearances.

On 1/24/2023 at 10:21 PM, sfcityduck said:

But the first appearance is still the first appearance.  And folks who want to create new

New? I guess if you're as old as the comic industry, everything could be considered "new" to you. Otherwise...

On 1/24/2023 at 10:21 PM, sfcityduck said:

marketing terms like "first full appearance" are just engaging in or feeding puffery designed to swell prices not expand knowledge.

Actually, that's the entire point. I can't tell you how many times I bought a comic specifically or mostly for a single character and was disappointed to find out that their appearance was only a single, lame page, which was a fact not mentioned by the source from which I obtained the information. Again, it is irrelevant whether that was their first or a later appearance.

[Lazyboy]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:54 PM, MAR1979 said:

Avengers 181 - Lang is merely icing on the cake.  Cover is Stone Classic, the Crown Jewel of Perez Avengers covers. Not to mention a full page Byrne splash with the same cover imagery.  

I'm not going to disagree with this.

On 1/24/2023 at 8:54 PM, MAR1979 said:

For many it is the key Avengers issue of their comics generation in this case the children readers of 1978-1982.  Back then a generation of comic readers was approx 4 years. 

On 1/24/2023 at 8:54 PM, MAR1979 said:

So yes agreed Overrated as 1st Lang, but Underrated as a generational Avengers cover and story.

Despite anything else the issue has going for it, it sells for 10x the surrounding issues and only started doing so when Scott got hot.

[sfcityduck]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:40 PM, Lazyboy said:

There are multiple factors that combine to create values. First appearances are a big one, but absolutely not the only one. And it's impossible to say that covers matter more than first appearances.

 

And yet, I just said it.  And others do too. Here's a good example for you to contemplate:  What is worth more in today's CGC driven market: (1) The second appearance of the very first superhero or (2) the second cover appearance of the very first superhero?  And it is worth mentioning that the cover of the second appearance of the very first superhero is great art by one of the greatest cover artists of DC's early GA.

[sfcityduck]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:40 PM, Lazyboy said:

 

New? I guess if you're as old as the comic industry, everything could be considered "new" to you. Otherwise...

 

Nah, the comic industry was around for 36 or so years before I was born.  Fortunately, I have my dad's collection from when he was a kid and it taught me a lot about an era of the GA that I love.

[sfcityduck]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:40 PM, Lazyboy said:

 

Actually, that's the entire point. I can't tell you how many times I bought a comic specifically or mostly for a single character and was disappointed to find out that their appearance was only a single, lame page, which was a fact not mentioned by the source from which I obtained the information. Again, it is irrelevant whether that was their first or a later appearance.

As a completest, I wanted every X-Men appearance no matter how small. I guess my OCD is just worse than yours. 

[sfcityduck]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:51 PM, Lazyboy said:

 

Despite anything else the issue has going for it, it sells for 10x the surrounding issues and only started doing so when Scott got hot.

Which I agree is evidence of speculation, not love - but Lang is on the cover, right?

[Lazyboy]

On 1/24/2023 at 11:29 PM, sfcityduck said:

Which I agree is evidence of speculation, not love - but Lang is on the cover, right?

He is not. The only regular guy on the cover is Gyrich. Lang is just some guy doing some (electrical?) work in the mansion on one page in the issue. The writer of Avengers at that time just happened to be the same guy who wrote Marvel Premiere 47 a month later.

[sfcityduck]

On 1/24/2023 at 9:39 PM, Lazyboy said:

He is not. The only regular guy on the cover is Gyrich. Lang is just some guy doing some (electrical?) work in the mansion on one page in the issue. The writer of Avengers at that time just happened to be the same guy who wrote Marvel Premiere 47 a month later.

I really appreciate that you young kids can help rectify my memory holes ... NOW GET OFF OF MY LAWN!

[the blob]

On 1/24/2023 at 12:54 PM, shadroch said:

The orders were miniscule because there few comic shops buying them. The rest were distributed on newstands, not ordered.

The hope was that vendors would give more shelf space to a 50 cent  book than 20  cent books.  Comics were getting squeezed out as magazine prices increased.

The seller in 1940 made the same money if he sold a copy of Time as a comic- they were both a dime.  By the mid-70s, the gap was significant. Do you display a 75 cent Time or a 20 cent  comic?

OK, hold on though, i realize i was very young then so really have no idea (and we had a number of comic shops in NYC in the early 70s), but it is not like there are not tons of certain books that we pre-comic shop spec buys, usually #1 issues like Shazam and a host of others and less than a year after GS X-Men 1 you had spec books like Eternals 1, heck, even the 1968 Marvel #1s

[the blob]

On 1/24/2023 at 11:27 PM, Lazyboy said:

That's the full version of the ad I cropped and put on the left of my composite image.

Hulk 181 $3.50...Conan 1 $75...X-Men 94 $50..ASM 129 $2.50 FF 48 $25... GS X-Men...I can't quite read it, $34.99?

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by the blob

[Pat Thomas]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:25 PM, Readcomix said:

I’ve got to agree with you and add a tidbit - 181 was such an impactful story because it was the big transition from the team coming off the great Korvac saga of #167-177. 181 wrapped things up for the large previous cast and set the stage for the next great run. (It played the same role, albeit to a much lesser extent, that X-Men #94 played for the transition to the new X-Men as an ongoing series. If you were reading off the racks as I was in 1975 and reading those X-Men reprints and then GSX 1 and 94 come along, you understand their twin significance as keys. As someone else said, GSX 1 is to AF15 as 94 is to ASM 1. X94 today is underrated as a key, not overrated. The first apps are in GSX 1 but the new team really forms and kicks off in 94. Chocolate and peanut butter.)

Anyway, Avengers was my first read every month during that saga, and 177 was mind-blowing to grade school me. I’m a Marvel fan minority in that I liked Shooter/Perez Avengers more than Claremont/Byrne X-Men (which I really enjoyed too, but I was always an Avengers first kid.)

Avengers 177 had a big effect on me, too. I expected it to be rough due to all the buildup but was unprepared for the carnage starting on about page 2.

[Ken Aldred]

On 1/25/2023 at 5:28 AM, sfcityduck said:

As a completest, I wanted every X-Men appearance no matter how small. I guess my OCD is just worse than yours. 

I recall sometime around 1979 or 1980 a dealer at a comic mart stating that there were a lot of collectors out there hunting down every appearance of Wolverine, so the obsession was fairly common even early as that. Hardly a solitary case. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Ken Aldred

[Lazyboy]

On 1/25/2023 at 6:00 AM, Calmics said:

You've never been to the Modern section I take it?

Or the Marketplace, where some exclusively post.

[mr_highgrade]